tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post1034797770626470271..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: NAMB, IMB, and the GCRBart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-10403902640959651602009-05-18T09:23:00.000-05:002009-05-18T09:23:00.000-05:00RKS suggested that one of the things that could be...RKS suggested that one of the things that could be done would be for NAMB to have a person to funnel money to a state or area for church planting. I know firsthand that is being done. When I went to Wyoming as a church planter, I was not officially a NAMB missionary. I was a Wyoming church planter. I answered to the Missions and Evangelism Director of Wyoming. The first two years were fundedSteve Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04858156317482625056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-63143928954539340312009-05-17T19:09:00.000-05:002009-05-17T19:09:00.000-05:00Bart,
Just ignore my comments and move on. You ne...Bart,<br /><br />Just ignore my comments and move on. You need to consolidate your time :-)Greg Weltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11009322440200137155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-38179714243938330782009-05-16T15:37:00.000-05:002009-05-16T15:37:00.000-05:00I'm preaching a revival out of town. My opportunit...I'm preaching a revival out of town. My opportunities for blogging will be limited over the next few days. My apologiesBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-64613170178610333552009-05-16T09:28:00.000-05:002009-05-16T09:28:00.000-05:00Two questions.
Does NAMB not include Mexico, Cana...Two questions.<br /><br />Does NAMB not include Mexico, Canada and Haiti?<br /><br />Does anyone believe that one "Annie Moon" oferring will equal what the two bring in combined?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-39809981242570784652009-05-15T23:15:00.000-05:002009-05-15T23:15:00.000-05:00Bart (or anyone else):
How much of this consolida...Bart (or anyone else):<br /><br />How much of this consolidation talk is really about making GCR a second wave of the CR? - that is, "I want to have my missions money going where and to I want." <br /><br />Sorry to be the cynic about this, but the theological clothes of inerrancy covered the pragmatic body of the CR movement: We don't want the liberals spending our money on liberalism.<br /><br Andrewhttp://adubhigg.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-38165055426722469262009-05-15T22:33:00.000-05:002009-05-15T22:33:00.000-05:00Bart -
I would be in favor of using the NAMB mis...Bart - <br /><br />I would be in favor of using the NAMB missionaries in those areas that are in the most desperate need of the gospel, i.e. Northeast, Northwest, Utah, California. Period. I can't agree to have NAMB missionaies in regions that have strong church ministry already in place, i.e. almost anywhere in the so-called Bible belt. The exception would be a niche missionary to reach a Ben Macklinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-76296323772549500912009-05-15T15:00:00.000-05:002009-05-15T15:00:00.000-05:00I'm a little slow but maybe I'm finally catching o...I'm a little slow but maybe I'm finally catching on. Several of you have broached the idea of bifurcating the current NAMB work into (a) financially supporting church planters in the USA and (b) everything else that the NAMB does. I agree that this deserves more study. <br /><br />About ten days ago, I stated that I thought that whatever streamlining that is needed would be happening in the 'RKSOKC66https://www.blogger.com/profile/00169189225205863504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-24021515034835179192009-05-15T12:13:00.000-05:002009-05-15T12:13:00.000-05:00[6. on vagueness in BFM and GCR]
"I am not bemoan...[6. on vagueness in BFM and GCR]<br /><br />"I am not bemoaning the vagueness of any of the idea-items in the document. It is the action-item for which I want specifics before I give my endorsement."<br /><br />But why? I just outlined for you several "action-items" in the BFM. It would be incredible to me to read any of the excerpts I provided from the BFM, and not conclude that the document wasGreg Weltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11009322440200137155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-66347125988410848842009-05-15T12:12:00.002-05:002009-05-15T12:12:00.002-05:00[5. on balancing priorities within a NAMB/IMB]
"I...[5. on balancing priorities within a NAMB/IMB]<br /><br />"I think, without a separate entity devoted to North American church planting, it would be very easy for the bulk of the combined entity's domestic work to be dominated by international ethnic priorities."<br /><br />OK, this is a fair point. I think it ought to be seriously considered by any who would propose such a merger, and you do Greg Weltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11009322440200137155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-30129816333573600062009-05-15T12:12:00.001-05:002009-05-15T12:12:00.001-05:00[4. on NAMB planting non-SBC churches]
Yes, and y...[4. on NAMB planting non-SBC churches]<br /><br />Yes, and you asked, in light of those 'fundamental differences': "Will our projected new consolidated mission board start planting non-SBC congregations here in the USA?" This still strikes me as a *non sequitur*, for the reason I gave, even if we grant NAMB/IMB differences. Why raise this bogeyman if you aren't prepared to support it? Why would aGreg Weltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11009322440200137155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-70310901499907647532009-05-15T12:12:00.000-05:002009-05-15T12:12:00.000-05:00[3. on Article IX and consolidating the NAMB/IMB]
...[3. on Article IX and consolidating the NAMB/IMB]<br /><br />"I refuse to accept the burden of proof here. I (along with the rest of the messengers) am the one whose vote is being courted. Those bringing the proposal bear the burden of proof. You may say all you wish that I have not proven my point. I need not do so. They have not proven theirs, and they must do so in order to obtain my vote."<brGreg Weltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11009322440200137155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-72892751000552762602009-05-15T12:11:00.001-05:002009-05-15T12:11:00.001-05:00[2. on Article IX vs. the Regenerate Church Member...[2. on Article IX vs. the Regenerate Church Membership resolution]<br /><br />"Bro. Johnny has announced one and only one action to be taken with regard to the GCR—the creation of committees to implement Article IX."<br /><br />He has? I thought <A HREF="http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/10271.article" REL="nofollow">that</A> "Hunt confirmed a motion will be offered at the SBC annual meeting Greg Weltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11009322440200137155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-85678501509909418982009-05-15T12:11:00.000-05:002009-05-15T12:11:00.000-05:00[1. on a NAMB/IMB merger]
Bart,
Thanks for your ...[1. on a NAMB/IMB merger]<br /><br />Bart,<br /><br />Thanks for your replies.<br /><br />I'm not sure I get your analogies. This isn't a piece of clothing, or a math problem. Now, the "Bob's Italian Pizzeria and Bait Shop" example is much more relevant, since -- unlike clothing or math -- a shop has personnel, budget, income and expenses, programs, clientele, etc. But even in this case, the Greg Weltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11009322440200137155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-83170187797058462372009-05-15T11:30:00.000-05:002009-05-15T11:30:00.000-05:00Bart,
I would be concerned about consolidation of ...Bart,<br />I would be concerned about consolidation of the two boards as well. If anything, instead of consolidation, I would like to see NAMB streamlined with less responsibilities so the focus could be on Church planting. I served for four years as a church planter in Wyoming. Wyoming is a State Convention that receives much more from NAMB than it gives. Directors of Missions, some State Steve Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04858156317482625056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-37024719401891157372009-05-15T08:43:00.000-05:002009-05-15T08:43:00.000-05:00Man, sorry for all the typos.
I need a cup of cof...Man, sorry for all the typos.<br /><br />I need a cup of coffee.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-20878820289914361872009-05-15T08:40:00.000-05:002009-05-15T08:40:00.000-05:00Bart:
Thanks for writing this piece.
Reorganizin...Bart:<br /><br />Thanks for writing this piece.<br /><br />Reorganizing and reshuffling is not the answer to moving forward. It's just rearranging chairs.<br /><br />Consolidation, as you noted, often has a down side. In my office, we could see if we could consolidate and cost save by requiring each secretary to pick up another lawyer and asking the paralegals to pick up more cases. We would Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-18293083335863278742009-05-15T02:40:00.000-05:002009-05-15T02:40:00.000-05:00I'm guessing the several references to the NASB (w...I'm guessing the several references to the NASB (which I think of as the Lockman Foundation's Bible version, a bit over-literal) are actually typos for the NAMB?Leland Bryant Rosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14211499185401035099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-14561248612866707502009-05-15T00:49:00.000-05:002009-05-15T00:49:00.000-05:00Inigo Montoya, just after Westley wakes up from ha...Inigo Montoya, just after Westley wakes up from having been "mostly dead all day."<br /><br />Glad I could contribute.Wes Kenneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09628590417301855884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-53282493167112187872009-05-14T23:45:00.000-05:002009-05-14T23:45:00.000-05:00Roger,
You correctly understood me. I was talking...Roger,<br /><br />You correctly understood me. I was talking about long term work rather than short term team missions. Our church has become very involved in sending out teams short term. One thing I've noticed about this: Although it is our church doing the sending, IMB and NAMB provide a lot of the infrastructure. We work Southern Cross in Thailand and Macao alongside IMB missionaries. We do Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-4663897898840543912009-05-14T23:34:00.000-05:002009-05-14T23:34:00.000-05:00Dr. Barber:
While in some cases it could be that ...Dr. Barber:<br /><br />While in some cases it could be that local churches, associations, and state conventions only work in areas that are within their own geographical boundaries there are many exceptions. <br /><br />Here in Oklahoma a group of dozens of Oklahoma churches, through the auspices of the BGCO, just sent 250singers to Armenia for two weeks. This was a tour in which the singers hadRKSOKC66https://www.blogger.com/profile/00169189225205863504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-8241161208772664332009-05-14T22:18:00.000-05:002009-05-14T22:18:00.000-05:00Roger,
With regard to the duplication of efforts ...Roger,<br /><br />With regard to the duplication of efforts by associations, state conventions, local churches, and the NAMB, I see the same problems and needs. What I do not see is how an SBC committee could do anything about this other than what you have suggested, the evisceration of NAMB. These are the problems that I perceive with that approach:<br /><br />1. Most of our churches can't Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-23020288927411595192009-05-14T21:52:00.000-05:002009-05-14T21:52:00.000-05:00Dr. Barber:
Let me expand of my reading of the te...Dr. Barber:<br /><br />Let me expand of my reading of the tea leaves regarding what might happen with Item IX.<br /><br />In Johnny Hunt's podcast he gave the example of the young seminary grad wanting assistance in trying to set up a chruch plant in Memphis TN. The scenario was that both the local association in Shelby county, the TN state convention, and the NAMB could potentially (or not) be RKSOKC66https://www.blogger.com/profile/00169189225205863504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-55320872187162739382009-05-14T21:24:00.000-05:002009-05-14T21:24:00.000-05:006. Is the Baptist Faith & Message an example o...6. Is the Baptist Faith & Message an example of a good, vague document?<br /><br />I submit that, although the ideas in the BF&M are deliberately and helpfully vague at points, the effect of the adoption and affirmation of the BF&M was and is very specific. The convention adopted the BF&M knowing exactly what it was accomplishing: SBC employees who did not concur with this Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-45515931475498055882009-05-14T21:17:00.000-05:002009-05-14T21:17:00.000-05:005. Do I fairly evaluate what would happen to the b...5. Do I fairly evaluate what would happen to the balance of priority between international missions and home missions in a NAMB-IMB merger?<br /><br />My argument on the "footnote" statement is simply this: Historically, Southern Baptists have placed a higher priority on international missions than on home missions. However, whatever the macro-situation in the SBC at large, at least the Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-48050275538063493232009-05-14T21:09:00.000-05:002009-05-14T21:09:00.000-05:004. Am I scaremongering to ask whether NAMB will be...4. Am I scaremongering to ask whether NAMB will be planting non-SBC churches?<br /><br />That line was hardly the headline of the piece, nor even a major point. If I'm trying to stir up paranoia, I'm pretty inept at it, burying my scary line so deep in the text like that.<br /><br />I was laboring (poorly I imagine) to make the point that NAMB relates differently with the SBC than the IMBBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.com