tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post162656886957467271..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: The Year 25 B.C.P.Bart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-4772426275973484422009-10-09T19:21:24.215-05:002009-10-09T19:21:24.215-05:00I would like to see an article outlining how the C...I would like to see an article outlining how the Cooperative Program facilitated the wholesale theological rape of the Southern Baptist churches by modernism.<br /><br />Mark Osgatharp<br />Wynne, ArkansasMark Osgatharphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05585562082826860149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-55293220832728808782009-09-25T08:17:02.609-05:002009-09-25T08:17:02.609-05:00Bart,
This should be in every state paper. This ...Bart,<br /><br />This should be in every state paper. This should be read by more than just the folks who come in here. I doubt that it will though. :(<br /><br />Also, dont expect to be invited to many seminars and training clinics to share this info. ;)<br /><br />Davidvolfan007https://www.blogger.com/profile/15635929001030697924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-28758330424122194112009-09-20T18:59:44.643-05:002009-09-20T18:59:44.643-05:00Excellent look at the history that demonstrates wh...Excellent look at the history that demonstrates why the Cooperative Program was such a needed addition to Baptist life. The old society system of giving that relied on the "colporteurs," or professional solicitors, not only was an inefficient system. It put our various Baptist organizations in direct competition with each other. This was counterproductive because it left such a bad Robert Reeveshttp://www.greatcommissionkentucky.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-79547077881496372522009-09-17T13:31:26.672-05:002009-09-17T13:31:26.672-05:00Chris,
Both the CP strategy and the direct appeal...Chris,<br /><br />Both the CP strategy and the direct appeal strategy involve personally encouraging people to give, or should. The difference is that the CP strategy has the appeal being made by people actually performing ministry. Paul was a person actually performing ministry. He was not a fundraising agent who did nothing other than go around to churches raising money.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-52828426960265771672009-09-17T10:23:48.020-05:002009-09-17T10:23:48.020-05:00Bart,
Thanks for the clarification on Whitsitt an...Bart,<br /><br />Thanks for the clarification on Whitsitt and the dates.Stuartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-56563225009199637972009-09-17T10:19:18.177-05:002009-09-17T10:19:18.177-05:00Dave,
I have not performed any research with rega...Dave,<br /><br />I have not performed any research with regard to how many churches paid as they went for construction in that period and how many borrowed. I can say that I have, in reading primary sources from the period, encountered the stories of several churches with building loans at the time.<br /><br />These were a people closely acquainted with debt (at least, the farmers were). The Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-2883621666912249872009-09-17T08:00:39.366-05:002009-09-17T08:00:39.366-05:00Brother Bart,
An excellent brief focus on the his...Brother Bart,<br /><br />An excellent brief focus on the history of the immerging methods of the CP. As I was reading, I found myself wondering if the CP should not somehow revive some of the efficient questions it pondered in those days. Was it so bad that people would conjecture that men were using the funds wrongly? Was is so bad, and something to be silenced, that the fund raising was an Chris Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09477874901216715726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-77704438038521423462009-09-16T23:25:50.405-05:002009-09-16T23:25:50.405-05:00Enjoyed the post, but I have a question for clarif...Enjoyed the post, but I have a question for clarification. <br /><br />You said, under number 4: "And all of this came at the time when, at least in the Southwest, many of these churches were just undertaking either the construction of their own facilities or the retirement of associated debt."<br /><br />Was it common for churches in those days to get mortgages to pay for buildings?Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-64897707837297974402009-09-16T18:05:49.701-05:002009-09-16T18:05:49.701-05:00Stuart,
It depends upon whether there can be such...Stuart,<br /><br />It depends upon whether there can be such a thing as a non-immersing Baptist. The standard ESD theory that I received at SWBTS dated the emergence of Baptists to 1609 (John Smythe), but had Baptists not "recovering immersion" until 1641.<br /><br />Now that's a distinction that we would only observe in history. Anybody not immersing today, we would rightly label Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-75127737183520841812009-09-16T17:55:54.893-05:002009-09-16T17:55:54.893-05:00Bart,
Did Whitsitt claim that Baptists did not im...Bart,<br /><br />Did Whitsitt claim that Baptists did not immerse until 1641, or did he claim that Baptists did not "emerge" until 1641. I've always thought his heresy was that he rejected the JJJ theory in favor of the (now predominant) English Separatist view of Baptist beginnings.<br /><br />I don't mean to detract from the CP postings, but am curious about Whitsitt.<br /><Stuartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-31521308151997549902009-09-16T15:11:44.766-05:002009-09-16T15:11:44.766-05:00Bart,
Agreed. I think one of the things coming ou...Bart,<br />Agreed. I think one of the things coming out today is that many churches are moving to a year round Missions Giving Plan thus they are able to increase total dollars to all.Tim Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10885623376514366024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-62641742054744513242009-09-16T13:20:34.801-05:002009-09-16T13:20:34.801-05:00WOW!
This has to be one of your best posts ever....WOW! <br /><br />This has to be one of your best posts ever. This should be read by everyone in the SBC (perhaps reprinted in a national magazine or newspaper); and ought to be mandatory reading for those on the GCRTF.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-10956778122556507092009-09-16T13:19:41.018-05:002009-09-16T13:19:41.018-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-26394118150538874742009-09-16T12:57:00.699-05:002009-09-16T12:57:00.699-05:00Thanks to Wes Kenney for calling me and notifying ...Thanks to Wes Kenney for calling me and notifying me of my typographical error with regard to Lottie Moon. Thanks to all of the rest of your for your good comments.<br /><br />Tim G, the special offerings are vestigial to be sure, but are popular enough and successful enough that I don't think they're going anywhere soon. If there were a universe in which we could well handle all of it Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-71223078114568327922009-09-16T11:47:41.039-05:002009-09-16T11:47:41.039-05:00Right on target. Thanks for the researchRight on target. Thanks for the researchFBChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16827391508042827125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-13384535694133830732009-09-16T10:29:44.135-05:002009-09-16T10:29:44.135-05:00Very good historical article. We need to be remin...Very good historical article. We need to be reminded why so many non Southern Baptists envy the Cooperative Program. <br />David R. BrumbelowDavid R. Brumbelowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08926980202240271362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-46214036757529595852009-09-16T07:40:25.173-05:002009-09-16T07:40:25.173-05:00Thanks Bart. Lottie Moon must have been a direct ...Thanks Bart. Lottie Moon must have been a direct descendant of Methuselah. ;)Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04864810365424064220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-3880310715744948362009-09-16T04:18:24.331-05:002009-09-16T04:18:24.331-05:00Well done and helpful, Bart.
EdWell done and helpful, Bart.<br /><br />EdEd Stetzerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13796662750179074365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-50060286203404735282009-09-15T23:17:43.084-05:002009-09-15T23:17:43.084-05:00Great intro! One point of interest that ties with...Great intro! One point of interest that ties with the past you mentioned is that now we have in some manner returned to this first approach with the multiple offerings coming from every entity in state and nationally. I hear more and more of people tiring of the multiple offering approach and wondering why the CP does not handle it?Tim Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10885623376514366024noreply@blogger.com