tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post4330346217312740644..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: Some Honest Realism I AppreciateBart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-91146020728473147642009-03-07T17:21:00.000-06:002009-03-07T17:21:00.000-06:00Thanks. I have posted re Brother Mohler's theologi...Thanks. I have posted re Brother Mohler's theological triage before, and think your comments will make a good follow-up.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-23994410253921526242009-03-05T15:44:00.000-06:002009-03-05T15:44:00.000-06:00Brother R.L.,Feel free to correct the typos and gr...Brother R.L.,<BR/><BR/>Feel free to correct the typos and grammatical shortcomings that I see therein, but also feel free to employ my words however you see fit. Those of my words that go onto my blog, in my estimation of things, belong to the public domain unless otherwise published in a different context.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-37516334004997163432009-03-05T15:33:00.000-06:002009-03-05T15:33:00.000-06:00Brother Bart, like onepilgrimsprogress, somehow I ...Brother Bart, like onepilgrimsprogress, somehow I missed this thread. Didn't take notice of it till you mentioned it (and quoted from it) over at Tom Ascol's blog.<BR/><BR/>Now I am coming by to ask about quoting your thoughts on the theological triage over on my blog, beginning about here -- "I acknowledge the value of 'theological triage' in..." -- and thereafter. Do you mind?<BR/><BR/>Thanks.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-62647159557397341042009-02-27T23:48:00.000-06:002009-02-27T23:48:00.000-06:00Bart,Thanks for taking the time to address my ques...Bart,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for taking the time to address my questions. I will not be able to respond to all that you have said, but allow me to elaborate or clarify some of the things you mentioned.<BR/><BR/><B>Regarding theological triage</B>, I have read the dialogue with you and Tom over on his blog, and as far as I can tell, I am not in disagreement with you. The fact that not all doctrines areAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-80424581736703575562009-02-27T12:56:00.000-06:002009-02-27T12:56:00.000-06:00Somehow I missed this post initially, but have enj...Somehow I missed this post initially, but have enjoyed the discussion, particularly Dr. Barber's thoughts on theological triage.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-28450079163626387792009-02-27T12:38:00.000-06:002009-02-27T12:38:00.000-06:00John,I'm glad to have earned an extension of your ...John,<BR/><BR/>I'm glad to have earned an extension of your readership! Indeed, let us pray together for the Lordship of Christ through the Holy Spirit to become more and more real among the churches of our convention.<BR/><BR/>Let us pray that way, and let us work, too.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-23795625140055794862009-02-27T12:36:00.000-06:002009-02-27T12:36:00.000-06:00Finally, Timmy, regarding your questions at the en...Finally, Timmy, regarding your questions at the end of your comment:<BR/><BR/>1. Am I against your receiving training outside of a Southern Baptist perspective? No.<BR/><BR/>And really, it is quite clear that this is not a "Baptist Identity" position. Malcolm Yarnell, one of the favorite targets for tar and feathers in your milieu, holds a terminal degree from Oxford. Oxford, last time I checked,Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-2020987143435006212009-02-27T12:25:00.000-06:002009-02-27T12:25:00.000-06:00Third, regarding your objection that the real issu...Third, regarding your objection that the real issue in Southern Baptist life today is a loss of the gospel and a loss of the sufficiency of scripture:<BR/><BR/>The gospel found me when I was but a lad. Not all Southern Baptists have lost the gospel. Some on our rolls have never found the gospel nor been found by it. I learned what the gospel was in Southern Baptist churches.<BR/><BR/>If by "Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-76194544177400029412009-02-27T12:13:00.000-06:002009-02-27T12:13:00.000-06:00Second, regarding your objection to the use of suc...Second, regarding your objection to the use of such a term as "ecumenical compromise" in certain situations:<BR/><BR/>There is such a thing as ecumenical compromise. Does the label apply correctly to "cooperation with non-Southern Baptists on Great Commission causes"?<BR/><BR/>I submit that you've given us a pretty broad category there. Within it I can imagine both some cases where it would Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-12557259087750419112009-02-27T12:00:00.000-06:002009-02-27T12:00:00.000-06:00Regarding your "triage" objection, and a...Regarding your "triage" objection, and after seeing what your boss has put up recently, I would offer the following.<BR/><BR/>I acknowledge the value of "theological triage" in (a) as an imperfect metaphor, (b) to be used in an external sense, (c) regarding the relative severity of the effects of disobedience in any particular area of what Christ has commanded.<BR/><BR/>The Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-30877291074621384332009-02-27T11:38:00.000-06:002009-02-27T11:38:00.000-06:00Timmy,I'll reply in multiple comments, just to kee...Timmy,<BR/><BR/>I'll reply in multiple comments, just to keep any one comment from being too long. So look to the next few to get my responses.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-52591901001507223642009-02-27T09:38:00.000-06:002009-02-27T09:38:00.000-06:00WesInTex,You're right. I don't know if there was s...WesInTex,<BR/>You're right. I don't know if there was some troll bait in that response or not, but I'm going to just go ahead and concede to you. There are plenty of men who have been around longer than me and suffered more abuses than me. I am a passionate young guy, and I need to learn to chill, endure, and work for change. I will say this though. There are certain guys in the denomination who John T. Meche IIIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06519759200296267707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-53420749046703584442009-02-26T20:29:00.000-06:002009-02-26T20:29:00.000-06:00Bart,You are correct in saying that I agree with y...Bart,<BR/><BR/>You are correct in saying that I agree with you in the marks of a healthy church and their relation to being Baptist. The issues I have with Baptist Identity has to do with other issues, not the least of which are (1) rejection of theological triage, (2) the slur of "ecumenical compromise" regarding cooperation with non-Southern Baptists on Great Commission causes, and (3) the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-14213134751660278602009-02-26T15:26:00.000-06:002009-02-26T15:26:00.000-06:00KWS,Should you get ready to go to LC, give me a ca...KWS,<BR/><BR/>Should you get ready to go to LC, give me a call.<BR/><BR/>;-)Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-80156157590531422742009-02-26T15:10:00.000-06:002009-02-26T15:10:00.000-06:00Bart,Love you:) Go to LA with me next week and en...Bart,<BR/><BR/>Love you:) Go to LA with me next week and enjoy some of that exegetical preaching we both love. I need an advisor on this research and you are my first choice. KSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-11146287087015614552009-02-26T14:07:00.000-06:002009-02-26T14:07:00.000-06:00Timmy, You wrote: "The silliness of comments like ...Timmy, <BR/><BR/>You wrote: <BR/>"The silliness of comments like Ben Stratton is indication of why many are looking outside the SBC for personal leadership and direction in ministry." <BR/><BR/>It's not at all silliness. Just look at many of the Calvinistic Southern Baptist preachers. (This has nothing to do with soteriology, but ecclesiology.) This men read, promote, and glorify the Puritans Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-54586077289387644782009-02-26T12:20:00.000-06:002009-02-26T12:20:00.000-06:00Timmy,Re-reading your comment, I would take issue ...Timmy,<BR/><BR/>Re-reading your comment, I would take issue with one aspect. I think you should brush up on your history if you believe that the loss of regenerate church membership took place during the period of the Conservative Resurgence. It happened far, far earlier than that.<BR/><BR/>Our forefathers have flaws. It is unseemly and unbiblical for the younger among us to be rubbing the noses Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-23766991757163004192009-02-26T12:12:00.000-06:002009-02-26T12:12:00.000-06:00Timmy,I agree entirely.Once, sitting across from J...Timmy,<BR/><BR/>I agree entirely.<BR/><BR/>Once, sitting across from Jerry Sutton, I told him that, although I greatly appreciated his book <EM>The Baptist Reformation</EM>, I thought it a lousy title. That which only "reforms" denominational institutions is hardly a reformation. The center of Baptist life is the local church, and until we have reformation there, we will have no true Baptist Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-74437387136513115152009-02-26T11:54:00.000-06:002009-02-26T11:54:00.000-06:00Bart,You missed the point of my comment, and furth...Bart,<BR/><BR/>You missed the point of my comment, and furthermore, what you chose to talk about (RCM) is about the recovery of something that should not have been lost nor perpetuated under the watch of the Conservative Resurgence. True Baptist Identity would not have allowed the unregenerate state to begin in the first place.<BR/>RCM is a another example of how the Conservative Resurgence did Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-57825926666481164632009-02-26T11:53:00.000-06:002009-02-26T11:53:00.000-06:00Bart,I have some heroes who are SBC. B. Gray Alli...Bart,<BR/>I have some heroes who are SBC. B. Gray Allison comes to mind very quickly. My now in heaven Hebrew professor, T. V. Farris who taught Hebrew, was one of my favorite preachers, and was a long time missionary. Dr. Bud Bickers. My Greek professor, Dr. Richard Melick. (Who also wrote the first commentary for NAC.) My pastor during Seminary, Tommy Hinson. My boyhood pastor, Charles Steve Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04858156317482625056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-73254459895457322062009-02-26T11:24:00.000-06:002009-02-26T11:24:00.000-06:00"disposable church syndrome"Wow, that's good. I'v..."disposable church syndrome"<BR/><BR/>Wow, that's good. I've got to write that down somewhere ...<BR/><BR/>Thanks Bart,<BR/>WesWesInTexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16531270190006671713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-11761450302568456552009-02-26T11:20:00.000-06:002009-02-26T11:20:00.000-06:00KWS,I, too, am predicting major impact if this sit...KWS,<BR/><BR/>I, too, am predicting major impact if this situation does not change. I was not present for the sermon that you have mentioned. I think I can say with confidence that I appreciate the same kind of exegetical preaching that you appreciate.<BR/><BR/>I think that the comments here may have been better than my original post. To wit:<BR/><BR/>1. Peter's listing of men appreciated outsideBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-1531400051011773682009-02-26T11:12:00.000-06:002009-02-26T11:12:00.000-06:00John T. Meche,As to the term "Baptist Identity," i...John T. Meche,<BR/><BR/>As to the term "Baptist Identity," it is an interesting story. Interesting because of the way that history repeats itself. I did not choose to be labeled that way, nor did any of the other men to whom it has been applied. It is a slur that others have tried to hang around our necks, crafted to dissuade folks just like you.<BR/><BR/>In this way, it is just like the word "Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-18955421246449988132009-02-26T11:05:00.000-06:002009-02-26T11:05:00.000-06:00Now, Timmy, we've talked about this before.It&...Now, Timmy, we've talked about this before.<BR/><BR/>It's great that you're at a church without a padded roll. But if we're going to turn things around in the SBC, some people are going to have to have the courage to go into churches that have lost regenerate church membership and do the very hard work of turning them around. I'm pleased to say that our church has already seenBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-62557349972738822642009-02-26T10:35:00.000-06:002009-02-26T10:35:00.000-06:00Bart,Regarding my comments about hero, I think you...Bart,<BR/><BR/>Regarding my comments about hero, I think you are reading in too much so as to argue that having mentors or men whose examples we seek to emulate somehow is the same thing as "hero-worship." None of these men have or ever will sign my Bible. :)<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, I and others have been open to critique at times those whose ministries we most appreciate. <BR/><BR/>When I refer Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com