tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post4705712737111942357..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: Bart's Analysis of Ed's Analysis of the SBCBart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-85882195014083801422008-04-29T21:18:00.000-05:002008-04-29T21:18:00.000-05:00I think it is clear to all that we are slightly su...I think it is clear to all that we are slightly superior, CBDave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-77687161883716575472008-04-29T21:00:00.000-05:002008-04-29T21:00:00.000-05:00Dave,I know there would be room for the two of us ...Dave,<BR/><BR/>I know there would be room for the two of us because of our excellent eschatology.:-)<BR/><BR/>I guess it would be OK to call other biblicists also even if they have the wrong view of the end tines and ain't smart like us. :-)<BR/><BR/>cbCB Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230652312241919771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-19835802608772790792008-04-29T17:54:00.000-05:002008-04-29T17:54:00.000-05:00Great CB, That is probably my favorite word. Howe...Great CB, <BR/><BR/>That is probably my favorite word. However, the problem is that it can be a kind of pejorative as well, if I use it wrong. <BR/><BR/>"I am a biblicist, who just reads, interprets and applies the Bible." <BR/><BR/>But does that not imply that if you disagree with me, you might not be? <BR/><BR/>If I had to use only one term, though, biblicist would be it.Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-9156656927595101102008-04-29T17:36:00.000-05:002008-04-29T17:36:00.000-05:00Dave and Tim,And maybe that is why we should seek ...Dave and Tim,<BR/><BR/>And maybe that is why we should seek to be identified as "biblicists." <BR/><BR/>Did I spell that right?:-)<BR/><BR/>cbCB Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230652312241919771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-14254266620602452702008-04-29T17:12:00.000-05:002008-04-29T17:12:00.000-05:00I just figured something out. When I am tired and...I just figured something out. When I am tired and worn down, I blog. It keeps me from doing my real work. <BR/><BR/>I have blogged more today than I have in the last two weeks. Probably means I will have to give it up the rest of the week and do some real work.Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-73937482257167963952008-04-29T17:09:00.000-05:002008-04-29T17:09:00.000-05:00Tim, No. I am saying I do not follow "reformed" v...Tim, <BR/><BR/>No. I am saying I do not follow "reformed" views on eschatology, ecclesiology and other minor points. That is why I have had trouble figuring out a pigeon-hole description of my views. <BR/><BR/>I have no trouble with the Solas of the reformers. If that is all "reformed" meant, I would gladly embrace that term. <BR/><BR/>I have tended to call myself "calvinistic" because I Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-9666836997370850562008-04-29T16:01:00.000-05:002008-04-29T16:01:00.000-05:00Brother Dave,When I use 'Reformed', I mean it in t...Brother Dave,<BR/><BR/>When I use 'Reformed', I mean it in the use of the 5 "Sola's". If I follow your prescription of the term, then are you saying that you follow Calvin's view of Ecclesiology? <BR/><BR/>Next we will discuss how many angels dance on the head of a pin. :>)<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>TimTim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-82828308695768260362008-04-29T15:38:00.000-05:002008-04-29T15:38:00.000-05:00Tim, nomenclature is difficult. I don't use the t...Tim, nomenclature is difficult. I don't use the term reformed, because I do not accept the typical reformed view of eschatology (I am still hanging on to the hope of the Rapture!) and I have not liked much of the teaching on sanctification that I have heard from reformed folks. So, I do not use the term reformed because to most it implies 5-point, amil or preterist, with a whole system of Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-22626522743558036182008-04-29T14:56:00.000-05:002008-04-29T14:56:00.000-05:00Brother Jamie,Hells Bells? You are a harder rocke...Brother Jamie,<BR/><BR/>Hells Bells? You are a harder rocker than your redneck self personifies.<BR/><BR/>What if you were in a church where they played <I>Simple Kind of Man</I> or <I>The Devil Went down to Georgia</I>? As a lost person, how would you respond to that?<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>TimTim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-18732373039311617092008-04-29T14:50:00.000-05:002008-04-29T14:50:00.000-05:00Brother Dave Miller,You write; I am a calvinist - ...Brother Dave Miller,<BR/><BR/>You write; <I>I am a calvinist - convinced of 4 points...</I> I just want to call your attention to something that has been a pet peeve of mine since I began hearing about Calvinist and Non-Calvinist. I believe it would be better to use the word Reformed for someone in your position. To say one is a Calvinist and only agrees with 4 points espoused by the council Tim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-77875469397952762072008-04-29T14:29:00.000-05:002008-04-29T14:29:00.000-05:00cb??????Who ever dedicated themselves to being my ...cb<BR/><BR/>??????<BR/><BR/>Who ever dedicated themselves to being my spokesman certainly does not go to my church. BUT, are you sure they weren't confusing Ben Cole with Ben Macklin. In this confusing blog world last names are very important.<BR/><BR/>Tim Rogers....I'll have to look that one up.<BR/><BR/>Ben Macklin<BR/>Vernon, Texas<BR/>(close to Oklahoma, but worlds away)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-7037783369256651782008-04-29T13:59:00.000-05:002008-04-29T13:59:00.000-05:00Ben Mac,Am I to understand you do believe that we ...Ben Mac,<BR/><BR/>Am I to understand you do believe that we should go door-to-door even in this postmodern culture with the gospel of the Bible unapologetically? <BR/><BR/>Are you also saying we should invite the lost to our homes and eat with them and befriend them without pretense just as did Jesus when he walked upon this earth?<BR/><BR/>If you would agree to the above; would you also agree weCB Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230652312241919771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-77544513918266282522008-04-29T12:38:00.000-05:002008-04-29T12:38:00.000-05:00Bart,Excellent post as always.Why do numbers go do...Bart,<BR/>Excellent post as always.<BR/>Why do numbers go down?<BR/><BR/>Some say Calvinism. That is laughable. How many non calvinist do you know that really share their faith. Probably few. Besides how many SBC churches are lead by Calvinist. Few. Not enough to change the #'s that much.<BR/><BR/>Also- nothing guarantees a person will come to Christ if we share our faith with them. We act like Jamie Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13186614354346762218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-52215508939486782032008-04-29T12:20:00.000-05:002008-04-29T12:20:00.000-05:00Brother Bart - I think you mistook my comments as ...Brother Bart - <BR/><BR/>I think you mistook my comments as an attack on previous methodologies, or a defense of an emerging church movement (maybe). People in every era have faced enormous challenges to the gospel; we studied the same Baptist History - we know the issues in the 19th and 20th centuries especially.<BR/><BR/>BUT, in many programmatic, architectural, musical, and paradigmatic ways, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-75446537930414302182008-04-29T12:11:00.000-05:002008-04-29T12:11:00.000-05:00cbI don't disagree with you. Who does among us? On...cb<BR/><BR/>I don't disagree with you. Who does among us? One premise I might not completely buy into, though, is that this cultural shift is normal. Yes, there have been great periods of upheaval and renewal, but we live in an age in which media is influencing cultural norms like never before. I don't see big shifts away from past upheavals; I see those upheavals validated by an aire of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-59040928835747213192008-04-29T11:56:00.000-05:002008-04-29T11:56:00.000-05:00Ben,People in the 1950s didn't just show up to chu...Ben,<BR/><BR/>People in the 1950s didn't just show up to church for revivals. Laypeople in the pews went forth with confidence and pleaded with people to be saved as a part of their daily lives. I am not trying to portray the era in an idyllic manner—the church in the 1950s had profound problems. But the idea that people in any era have seen evangelistic fruit by merely sitting on their Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-91910706710286483062008-04-29T11:46:00.001-05:002008-04-29T11:46:00.001-05:00Amen brother.Amen brother.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-88593706861458974132008-04-29T11:46:00.000-05:002008-04-29T11:46:00.000-05:00As one who attended both of the T4G conferences, I...As one who attended both of the T4G conferences, I can give you a major difference. T4G was never presented as an SBC conference. It was not hosted by or affilliated with any SBC church, institution or entity. It's hosts and speakers recognized significant differences in theology without diminishment and celebrated our common understanding of the doctrines of grace. What I have seen from some Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-55817151555106822602008-04-29T11:36:00.000-05:002008-04-29T11:36:00.000-05:00Ben Mac,Are you familiar with the work of William ...Ben Mac,<BR/><BR/>Are you familiar with the work of William Strass and Neil Howe?<BR/><BR/>They are the pioneers in the study of cultural shifts.<BR/><BR/>They say that patterns of social movement recur over time. They call it "cycles of history."<BR/><BR/>They relate cultural shifts as "turnings." A turning occurs about every twenty years within a "cycle of history."<BR/><BR/>They lay out a CB Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230652312241919771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-40887674258155595212008-04-29T11:06:00.000-05:002008-04-29T11:06:00.000-05:00In line with my previous comment, I would make a s...In line with my previous comment, I would make a suggestion. <BR/><BR/>I have read widely on the blogs about Ed Stetzer's comments. There seems to be a tendency to use the data (as I did in the third comment above - as a joke) to blame our blogging opponents for whatever problems exists. <BR/><BR/>A new tack might be helpful. If we who are calvinists would examine calvinism and see where we Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-63499256789571320672008-04-29T11:01:00.000-05:002008-04-29T11:01:00.000-05:00I do lay some of the blame for the malaise in the ...I do lay some of the blame for the malaise in the SBC on a form of calvinism that has developed in the SBC. <BR/><BR/>NOTE: I am a calvinist - convinced of 4 points; struggling with Biblical evidence on limited atonement. But I am a Calvinist, so my criticism is not of the nature of calvinism, but what I believe has become a deviation from the biblical teaching on God's sovereignty in Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-66579836374645194622008-04-29T10:17:00.000-05:002008-04-29T10:17:00.000-05:00We also have parents who are turning their backs o...We also have parents who are turning their backs on the above which makes reaching these people even harder.God however can do anything.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-14212806139505311262008-04-29T10:16:00.000-05:002008-04-29T10:16:00.000-05:00Ben Macklin. Bingo.Ben Macklin. Bingo.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-31552597262997232712008-04-29T08:48:00.000-05:002008-04-29T08:48:00.000-05:00Brother Bart - I think that the problems facing ou...Brother Bart - <BR/><BR/>I think that the problems facing our churches have much to do with cultural shifts that have changed the prevailing attitudes of today. In our town (12,000 pop.) we have as many single mothers, and blended families as we do traditional families, kids are involved in 5 times the activities and have 100 times the media / technology distractions as in the 1950's, drugs are Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-51789512460306217182008-04-29T08:45:00.000-05:002008-04-29T08:45:00.000-05:00kws,What you have stated about the 3:16 conference...kws,<BR/><BR/>What you have stated about the 3:16 conference, many of my non-calvinist friends allege about T4G. When they do so, I tell them that they are wrong.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.com