tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post4922481991449077330..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: Interpretation of StatisticsBart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-72422622071824155432007-05-22T23:25:00.000-05:002007-05-22T23:25:00.000-05:00I have enjoyed reading the post and comments conce...I have enjoyed reading the post and comments concerning SWBTS and the issues regarding enrollment. As a faculty member of Texas Baptist Institute & Seminary (www.tbi.edu), which is associated with American Baptist Association (ABA), I too am often concerned regarding our enrollment. As a conservative Baptist seminary, we seem to be losing students to the more moderate-liberal seminaries. This Bro. Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10195833222745366416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-17914503022622695922007-05-21T05:27:00.000-05:002007-05-21T05:27:00.000-05:00Anonymous,Thanks. It had slipped under my radar sc...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>Thanks. It had slipped under my radar screen. Other things going on, you know.<BR/><BR/>Charles...Anonymous is hinting at the fact that Ben Cole has a very intimate knowledge of Dr. Patterson, having been a close confidante of the Pattersons at some point in the not-too-distant-past. I do not purport to know what all happened, but the situation now is best summarized in the Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-56525933343537325742007-05-20T22:44:00.000-05:002007-05-20T22:44:00.000-05:00Bart,I know this post is old, but it's been four d...Bart,<BR/><BR/>I know this post is old, but it's been four days or so since Charles' post. Just wondering if you were going to correct his misperception about Ben's relationship with his former idol/hero/mentor/machiavellian role model.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-24223501789907011962007-05-16T09:06:00.000-05:002007-05-16T09:06:00.000-05:00I concur with your assessment of Ben Cole's skewin...I concur with your assessment of Ben Cole's skewing of SWBTS numbers and the reality of other area seminaries drawing prospective students. I must say, having obtained graduate degrees from the Criswell College (one under the presidency of Dr. Patterson) I don't understand the personal vendetta that Cole has with the SWBTS president. It is glaringly apparent to me that Ben Cole has no real Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-52389560751277052752007-05-15T07:52:00.000-05:002007-05-15T07:52:00.000-05:00Regarding Calvinism, the irony is that although SW...Regarding Calvinism, the irony is that although SWBTS has sort of acquired the image of the being the "Anti-Calvinist Seminary", the faculty at SWBTS is actually far more Calvinistic than it was 10 years ago. Actually, New Orleans is probably more anti-Calvinist than SWBTS.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09373044846252502523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-29259408578997132902007-05-15T00:31:00.000-05:002007-05-15T00:31:00.000-05:00Stuart,Regarding the "this" that is "ridiculous," ...Stuart,<BR/><BR/>Regarding the "this" that is "ridiculous," we always ought to beware unclear antecedents. Jeff is blaming Dr. Hemphill (which is his right), and by doing so seems to be setting aside (in a really kind manner) my non-presidential-factors explanation of enrollment slide. I, on the other hand, am advocating the consideration of these other factors, but have quite deliberately Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-35128239390903429622007-05-15T00:28:00.000-05:002007-05-15T00:28:00.000-05:00KWS,You have indeed highlighted a relevant factor....KWS,<BR/><BR/>You have indeed highlighted a relevant factor. I think I could probably (with some difficulty) shoehorn your point into Nathan Finn's point earlier up the line. Both of you are correct that the SBC six are not the only options, and you rightly observe that resurgent Calvinism is an important part of that phenomenon.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-17719864434663530862007-05-14T23:12:00.000-05:002007-05-14T23:12:00.000-05:00A decline in enrolllment was inevitable once thing...A decline in enrolllment was inevitable once things turned around at SBTS and SEBTS. So the numbers really do only tell half the story.<BR/><BR/>My question, then, is where was all this common sense when Hemphill was being knocked by his own board for declining enrollment? Are we to believe that the growth at the other seminaries wasn't a factor then but is now? Or that adminstration was to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-6081703798348528022007-05-14T23:10:00.000-05:002007-05-14T23:10:00.000-05:00Bart,I would like your opinion on one more factor ...Bart,<BR/><BR/>I would like your opinion on one more factor concerning recent enrollment figures. In my age cohort, many SBC conservatives have been more influenced by Mohler, Dever, Nettles, Macarthur and Piper than by Criswell, Rogers or Patterson. Though I am a lifelong Southern Baptist, the truth is that had it not been cost prohibitive, I would have moved to LA to enroll at the Master's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-69981006480524352202007-05-14T22:29:00.000-05:002007-05-14T22:29:00.000-05:00Bart,I can only offer my personal experience. I e...Bart,<BR/><BR/>I can only offer my personal experience. I enrolled at SWBTS in 1999 (the year the enrollment started to decline). Dr. Hemphill was the President, but was that had no impact on my decision. I visited almost every seminary in the country with a conservative reputation. There were many factors to consider including cost. (Praise the Lord for the Cooperative Program) Ultimately, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-62355764648091998222007-05-14T19:13:00.000-05:002007-05-14T19:13:00.000-05:00Jeff,You make good points about the effect of thes...Jeff,<BR/><BR/>You make good points about the effect of these factors upon other seminaries. Nevertheless, our starting reference points for measuring growth or decline for these institutions included lots of room for SWBTS to go down and lots of room for some of these other institutions to go up. Even now, it is not as though SWBTS is the runt of SBC seminaries.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-65016320024466307642007-05-14T19:11:00.000-05:002007-05-14T19:11:00.000-05:00Debbie,Of course not. Didn't say so. Most of the f...Debbie,<BR/><BR/>Of course not. Didn't say so. Most of the factors I mentioned were in the works back when Ben was one of Dr. Patterson's trusted friends.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-8547024097715067672007-05-14T18:53:00.000-05:002007-05-14T18:53:00.000-05:00Point taken Bart. But do you really believe Ben ha...Point taken Bart. But do you really believe Ben has the power to do this to the enrollment at SWBTS?Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-17439692358501782972007-05-14T18:36:00.000-05:002007-05-14T18:36:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-85716819815970064912007-05-14T18:30:00.000-05:002007-05-14T18:30:00.000-05:00Southern and SEBTS both had moderate seminaries in...Southern and SEBTS both had moderate seminaries in their own backyards, but they have not experienced enrollment declines. SEBTS had Paige Patterson as its President for 11 years, but it did not have an enrollment decline. Both Southern and SEBTS encountered hostility from the state newsletters in their states and from the local Baptist colleges, but neither one experienced a decline.<BR/><BR/>Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09373044846252502523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-50598900979678278512007-05-14T18:14:00.000-05:002007-05-14T18:14:00.000-05:00Bart,You write:"Apart from Dr. Patterson (who has ...Bart,<BR/><BR/>You write:<BR/><BR/>"Apart from Dr. Patterson (who has his own aura about him), how much does the occupant of the presidential office influence a person's choice of school?"<BR/><BR/>Response:<BR/><BR/>(1) In addition to Patterson's "aura" at SEBTS in the 1990s, I knew a lot of young SBC guys who said that they wanted to go to Southern because Mohler was there. On the other hand, Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09373044846252502523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-17846894200772743482007-05-14T17:42:00.000-05:002007-05-14T17:42:00.000-05:00OK, Debbie, let's consider it this way:Is John Gil...OK, Debbie, let's consider it this way:<BR/><BR/>Is John Gill an influence upon you, or do you find John Gill's words meaningless and lacking influence because you have your own mind?<BR/><BR/>Personally, I think this question poses a false dichotomy, because I believe that most people, while retaining a mind of their own, can still acknowledge certain people's opinions as influential upon them. Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-69538255481374525702007-05-14T17:31:00.000-05:002007-05-14T17:31:00.000-05:00Bart said:"Debbie,You correctly understand the poi...Bart said:"Debbie,<BR/><BR/>You correctly understand the point of item number one. Are you suggesting that one must be devoid of one's own mind in order for anyone else to have influence upon a person? Surely not?"<BR/><BR/>Well...yeah.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-88686058831266913182007-05-14T17:24:00.001-05:002007-05-14T17:24:00.001-05:00Anonymous,But actually, it is interesting informat...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>But actually, it is interesting information.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-80275260971514058612007-05-14T17:24:00.000-05:002007-05-14T17:24:00.000-05:00Dear Anonymous,<feeble attempt at humor>Than...Dear Anonymous,<BR/><BR/><feeble attempt at humor><BR/>Thank you Dr. Beckwith for stopping by and posting. You are welcome any time.<BR/></feeble attempt at humor>Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-31356351676972700592007-05-14T17:22:00.000-05:002007-05-14T17:22:00.000-05:00Bart and Marty,The Benediction is not used only in...Bart and Marty,<BR/><BR/>The Benediction is not used only in the Roman Mass. It is also used in New Testament baptism, but in Greek in the original rather than Latin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-47827878709328593312007-05-14T17:18:00.000-05:002007-05-14T17:18:00.000-05:00Jeff,Thanks for the research and analysis services...Jeff,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the research and analysis services.<BR/><BR/>I have no desire to direct sticks at Dr. Hemphill's eyes (nor am I suggesting that you desire such), but you are correct in noting the beginning of the trend. I stand by the factors that I have already mentioned as ample explanation.<BR/><BR/>Apart from Dr. Patterson (who has his own aura about him), how much does the occupantBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-14489872127532431162007-05-14T17:12:00.000-05:002007-05-14T17:12:00.000-05:00Debbie,Thanks for the translation services.Debbie,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the translation services.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-40416901177868839252007-05-14T17:11:00.000-05:002007-05-14T17:11:00.000-05:00Marty,In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti...Marty,<BR/><BR/>In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti...<BR/><BR/>:-)Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-74557248304384230532007-05-14T17:09:00.000-05:002007-05-14T17:09:00.000-05:00Debbie,You correctly understand the point of item ...Debbie,<BR/><BR/>You correctly understand the point of item number one. Are you suggesting that one must be devoid of one's own mind in order for anyone else to have influence upon a person? Surely not?Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.com