tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post5172918846708358688..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: Calvinist, Arminian, Biblicist?Bart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-9341007606977722602014-01-08T06:56:49.236-06:002014-01-08T06:56:49.236-06:00Well, Mighty, since nobody who isn't a Calvini...Well, Mighty, since nobody who isn't a Calvinist has ever had any verses of scripture to quote from their side, you obviously win.<br /><br />If only you'd been around 400 years ago!Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-14042167734164124822014-01-08T01:28:04.064-06:002014-01-08T01:28:04.064-06:00T- Total Depravity (Romans 3:10,11)
U- Unmerited E...T- Total Depravity (Romans 3:10,11)<br />U- Unmerited Election (Eph 1:4-6, Rom 8:28-30, 1 Pet 3:9)<br />L- Limitless atonement (Jn 3:16, 4:14, 1 Tim 2:3-6, Heb 2:9)<br />I- Instrumental Grace (Jn 1:11-14, Eph 2:8-10, Tit 2:11)<br />P- Preservation of the saints (Rom 8:31-39, Heb 7:25, 12:1-11)<br /><br />5 Bible Truths. John 17:17Run With Truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11828344626976285918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-85148236752727732342012-09-04T16:04:53.768-05:002012-09-04T16:04:53.768-05:00calvin was just another pope who supported murder ...calvin was just another pope who supported murder in the name of christ. no where in the new testament does it say to murder anyone who disagrees with you. how anyone can follow the teachings of a murder is beyond me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-70052434811374070172012-04-14T09:58:34.554-05:002012-04-14T09:58:34.554-05:00As always a thoughtful and thought-provoking post....As always a thoughtful and thought-provoking post. I too have been incorrectly classified by both camps as "not enough" and "too much". I wonder if finding unified peace in the discussion of soteriology rests in realizing that many great theologians have been standing on different sides of the mountain of God's sovereign grace. Each side describing things that are too Richmond Goolsbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17057592898812867839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-58215547750662423182012-04-11T17:07:49.984-05:002012-04-11T17:07:49.984-05:00To everyone:
It has been Spring Trustee Meeting w...To everyone:<br /><br />It has been Spring Trustee Meeting week at SWBTS. I've just arrived back into my office a few minutes before time for me to teach tonight's Bible Study. I've got another engagement this weekend. It's going to be several days before I can respond to any of these excellent comments.<br /><br />In Christ,<br />BartBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-36813844519702427642012-04-11T13:54:38.720-05:002012-04-11T13:54:38.720-05:00Bart, one of your better posts. I appreciate your...Bart, one of your better posts. I appreciate your fair treatment of other theological positions. Some on both sides seem to be terrific at creating theological straw men and ripping them to shreds. For many of my fellow Calvinists, an<br />Arminian is anyone less calvinistic than they, and for others a Hyper-Calvinist is anyone who believes in individual election. Thanks for helping us think KWSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-29496940783966695812012-04-05T09:35:17.632-05:002012-04-05T09:35:17.632-05:00I would encourage you to take the survey at the So...I would encourage you to take the survey at the Society of Evangelical Arminians site.<br /><br />http://evangelicalarminians.org/?q=Are_You_an_Arminian_and_Dont_Even_Know_It<br /><br />It is a helpful tool for determining between those who are Calvinists and those who are Arminian and helping those uncomfortable with either label discover that they may actually be one or the other.<br /><br />revrogersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-36787676597448994042012-04-04T12:40:33.315-05:002012-04-04T12:40:33.315-05:00Bart,
Systematic Calvinists and Arminians have ta...Bart,<br /><br />Systematic Calvinists and Arminians have taken liberty to fill in areas which appear to me to be mystery. Thats why Calvinists debate the order of decrees, the the nature of regeneration and why arminians debate the nature and extent of prevenient grace etc none of which are addressed in Scripture. I tend to take the term "biblicist" as an unwillingness to say more Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-27999597276465780892012-04-02T10:48:36.316-05:002012-04-02T10:48:36.316-05:00David, I cannot help but consider your suggestion ...David, I cannot help but consider your suggestion "barberic".Jerry Corbaleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11243600698760272202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-21301183107099762952012-04-02T08:24:35.929-05:002012-04-02T08:24:35.929-05:00Perhaps we should call this view:
"Barberism...Perhaps we should call this view:<br /><br />"Barberism"<br /><br />David R. BrumbelowDavid R. Brumbelowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08926980202240271362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-49170878077473866032012-03-28T09:09:03.271-05:002012-03-28T09:09:03.271-05:00Bart,
Great post that conveys much of what I also...Bart,<br /><br />Great post that conveys much of what I also believe and where I stand. I'm not sold out to any system, either. And, I would add that I call myself a Biblicist, because I just try to believe what the Bible says...not to put down anyone, who is into a system like Calvinism, or Arminianism, or any other "ism." <br /><br />I'm thinking about changing what I call volfan007https://www.blogger.com/profile/15635929001030697924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-31427615591502283862012-03-27T10:01:47.986-05:002012-03-27T10:01:47.986-05:00From what I've seen, there are many Arminians ...From what I've seen, there are many Arminians who don't buy the "able to lose your salvation" part of their theology. So I'm not entirely sure how important that particular belief is to Arminianism.<br /><br />Personally, I've started to be called a heretic from both sides. Calvinists call me a Pelagianist (of course many of them would call anyone who believed in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-28889809037865072742012-03-27T09:09:11.828-05:002012-03-27T09:09:11.828-05:00Sorry for my absence from the stream. Pastoral res...Sorry for my absence from the stream. Pastoral responsibilities have to come first. Good discussion, all!Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-56095846728929934022012-03-26T18:43:26.388-05:002012-03-26T18:43:26.388-05:00"Perhaps a better word would be 'susyemap...<i>"Perhaps a better word would be 'susyemaphobic'".</i><br /><br />No speaking in tongues now, I thought you were a cessationist! <br /><br />Maybe if you are successful in making your case (it is different from those on the Baptist Board) for the word "biblicist" we'll eventually have enough agreement to use it.<br /><br />I intended to comment previously but R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-12481883353145544202012-03-26T08:47:20.026-05:002012-03-26T08:47:20.026-05:00"When I call myself a biblicist, I'm not ..."When I call myself a biblicist, I'm not attempting to describe some achievement of mine; I'm trying to describe an endeavor of mine."<br /><br />This is a very thoughtful and honest post. Much appreciated...A. Chadwick Mauldinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151537407508096953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-72283783244899486712012-03-26T08:30:13.775-05:002012-03-26T08:30:13.775-05:00One of the best statements of your whole post (in ...One of the best statements of your whole post (in my opinion), is the following: <br /><br />" When I call myself a biblicist, I'm not attempting to describe some achievement of mine; I'm trying to describe an endeavor of mine. I'm speaking not of my accomplishment, but of my motivation".<br /><br /> I cannot help but wholeheartedly agree.<br /><br /> Our Lord Theologian Jerry Corbaleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-61352568196496274252012-03-26T07:04:48.210-05:002012-03-26T07:04:48.210-05:00Bart,
I appreciate the spirit of this post. Once ...Bart,<br /><br />I appreciate the spirit of this post. Once again you have demonstrated your fairness toward the position of others. <br /><br />My two cents:<br />I think calling oneself a "biblicist" among people who all claim to believe the Bible can come across as arrogant. As if "If only you would read the Bible you would come to my exact views." The reality is that both Steve Weaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13884897417905023138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-19746347872502764722012-03-26T05:45:37.300-05:002012-03-26T05:45:37.300-05:00Bill,
The "greater context of scripture"...Bill,<br /><br />The "greater context of scripture" ought to be the product of the mediate context of scripture. I think you've summarized the dispute well. The subjugation of the immediate context of scripture is a warning flag and a danger. <br /><br />That's not to say I never do it. That's not even to say that it mustn't be done. That's just to say it is an Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-4303022074515790042012-03-26T05:41:27.939-05:002012-03-26T05:41:27.939-05:00The "too much…too little" critique is a ...The "too much…too little" critique is a good one. Perhaps a better word would be "susyemaphobicBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-22259841413941224842012-03-26T05:36:22.744-05:002012-03-26T05:36:22.744-05:00Excellent post.Excellent post.Chris Gilliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03765218586483783054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-13613485103344528482012-03-25T19:38:31.798-05:002012-03-25T19:38:31.798-05:00It seems that what many people mean when they iden...It seems that what many people mean when they identify as a biblicist is that they derive their doctrines from the immediate context of scripture above the greater context. By that I mean those who fall into the traditional groups (like Calvinists or Arminians) do have what they consider to be biblical interpretations to the passages that seem to work against their theological system, when Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04864810365424064220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-88319205276705025642012-03-25T18:33:49.638-05:002012-03-25T18:33:49.638-05:00Discussing "biblicists" was a hot item o...Discussing "biblicists" was a hot item on the old Baptist Board several years ago. In the end I think more heat was generated than light. Some people are determinately focused on one being either a Calvinist or an Arminian, and will abide not other terminology. <br /><br />The problem with "biblicist" may be that it communicates both too much and too little. Too much if one R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-52625827564643081012012-03-25T17:31:44.664-05:002012-03-25T17:31:44.664-05:00Bill,
Thanks for the comment. Indeed, it is a maj...Bill,<br /><br />Thanks for the comment. Indeed, it is a major part of the point of the post to suggest not only, as you have, that almost every party in evangelical Christianity would self-identify as a biblicist, but also to suggest that, for a large number of those people, the label would be appropriate.<br /><br />And yet, there are excesses in either camp that one might highlight as clearly Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-22397392624161081992012-03-25T16:34:11.432-05:002012-03-25T16:34:11.432-05:00I'll confess that most of the time, when I see...I'll confess that most of the time, when I see the word "biblicist", I interpret it as an insult, just as you suggested might happen. As in "I'm not a Calvinist or an Arminian, I'm a biblicist" which, when stated that way cannot help but suggest that neither Calvinists nor Arminians <i>can be</i> biblicists.<br /><br />The term alone really conveys little meaning,Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04864810365424064220noreply@blogger.com