tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post6928143511094269559..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: In the Town of New Orleans, Part 3Bart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-69571392969975827892012-07-02T08:36:40.294-05:002012-07-02T08:36:40.294-05:00Here's a thought...from the Baptist Faith and ...Here's a thought...from the Baptist Faith and Message 2000 preamble:<br /><br />(3) That any group of Baptists, large or small, have the inherent right to draw up for themselves and publish to the world a confession of their faith whenever they may think it advisable to do so.<br /><br />It would seem that Founders could do this if they wish, Traditionalists could do this if they wish, and Jerry Corbaleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11243600698760272202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-19745894073666667622012-06-27T20:44:36.865-05:002012-06-27T20:44:36.865-05:00Anonymous,
Jerry's treatment of Wade Burleson...Anonymous,<br /><br />Jerry's treatment of Wade Burleson…<br /><br />1. Is not known firsthand to me, and probably is not known firsthand to you, unless you were a trustee with them at the time.<br /><br />2. If it was characterized by disagreement with Wade, was not in tension with his statement above, I don't think, since that would mean that Jerry was in support of the actions of the Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-88960323511160518012012-06-27T20:00:46.413-05:002012-06-27T20:00:46.413-05:00"Getting a good giggle reading comments in su..."Getting a good giggle reading comments in support of a document purporting to state the traditional SB soteriological position by arguing that the doctrinal statement of the oldest SB seminary is too Calvinistic in its soteriology."<br /><br />men trained by the Presbyterians who were also pro slavery. Quite the giggle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-3238010186153314842012-06-27T19:59:12.165-05:002012-06-27T19:59:12.165-05:00Southern Baptists have a polity that favors appoin...Southern Baptists have a polity that favors appointing Christians to a ministry responsibility and then TRUSTING that the Christians with the responsibility will be faithful, and that those so entrusted will make better decisions than those Christians who have less involvement in the ministry, and therefore less context by which to make decisions."<br /><br />Your views are interesting Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-63488932726109932542012-06-26T21:25:50.512-05:002012-06-26T21:25:50.512-05:00Getting a good giggle reading comments in support ...Getting a good giggle reading comments in support of a document purporting to state the traditional SB soteriological position by arguing that the doctrinal statement of the oldest SB seminary is too Calvinistic in its soteriology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-74039801053558847182012-06-26T16:41:08.410-05:002012-06-26T16:41:08.410-05:00Southern Baptists have a polity that favors appoin...Southern Baptists have a polity that favors appointing Christians to a ministry responsibility and then TRUSTING that the Christians with the responsibility will be faithful, and that those so entrusted will make better decisions than those Christians who have less involvement in the ministry, and therefore less context by which to make decisions.<br /><br />That is what Trustees are all about.<Jerry Corbaleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11243600698760272202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-23936312468994035802012-06-26T15:40:58.928-05:002012-06-26T15:40:58.928-05:00Now, guys…
Being ABLE to do something is distinct...Now, guys…<br /><br />Being ABLE to do something is distinct from finding it WISE or RIGHT to do something. Any entity COULD adopt the Traditional Statement; none WILL do so.<br /><br />But the point of the Garner Motion is nonetheless important. SWBTS already has adopted additional statements beyond the BF&M. Professors have to affirm the Chicago Statement on Inerrancy, for example.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-43168499246320619402012-06-26T15:14:09.101-05:002012-06-26T15:14:09.101-05:00Well volfan, I can't be sure that if Southwest...Well volfan, I can't be sure that if Southwestern adopts the traditionalist document enrollment will increase at Southern. I know for a fact that if Southwestern adopts the traditionalist document Southwestern's enrollment will decrease by one before the ink is dry:)kwsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-4241583732606076322012-06-26T11:36:58.441-05:002012-06-26T11:36:58.441-05:00If we can change the name of the SBC, and we can c...If we can change the name of the SBC, and we can change the way NAMB operates; then surely we can change and get rid of the abstracts at Southern and Southeastern. Why not? Are they a sacred, golden calf, which cant be touched? Of course, we, the people, can tell them to get rid of the abstracts; if we want it that way. <br /><br />And, if Southwestern and New Orleans adopted the Traditional volfan007https://www.blogger.com/profile/15635929001030697924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-56198711350288822262012-06-26T08:36:34.162-05:002012-06-26T08:36:34.162-05:00Bart;
The problem is not 'New Calvinism'...Bart; <br />The problem is not 'New Calvinism'; the problem is 'New CalvinISTS'. Knee jerk opposition to anything from anyone who isn't a card carrying member of their holy army grows a bit thin. Be very careful when you say 'good morning'; someone will be offended.<br />DaleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-69407669147706887902012-06-25T21:45:37.392-05:002012-06-25T21:45:37.392-05:00I think that if swbts adopted the traditionalist d...I think that if swbts adopted the traditionalist document it would be an excellent way to increase enrollment...at Southern.kwsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-62294152995814462272012-06-25T19:53:06.890-05:002012-06-25T19:53:06.890-05:00I'm against any entity introducing a more narr...I'm against any entity introducing a more narrow confession of faith. The Abstract is part of the charters of SBTS and SEBTS. It's not the same as another entity introducing a new confession. If there was no abstract, I'd be against SBTS and SEBTS introducing it.Jared Moorehttp://jaredmoore.exaltchrist.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-36810567127705195262012-06-25T18:32:50.430-05:002012-06-25T18:32:50.430-05:00Let me refresh your memory a little bit Bart conce...Let me refresh your memory a little bit Bart concerning the Garner motion debate which occurred more after the motion passed than it did during the voting for the motion.<br /><br />As Alan said, there were probably 10 people that knew what the Garner motion was even referencing. <br /><br />http://www.wadeburleson.org/2007/06/transcript-of-debate-at-2007-sbc-over.htmlDebbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-7628364968657825752012-06-25T16:26:20.700-05:002012-06-25T16:26:20.700-05:00Bart,
Interesting comments, especially on the Bapt...Bart,<br />Interesting comments, especially on the Baptist Faith & Message.<br /><br />I wonder how many Calvinists would agree that since Southern Seminary has its Abstracts,that, for example, Southwestern could have its Traditional Statement on Salvation?<br /><br />Good to see you at the Convention.<br />David R. BrumbelowDavid R. Brumbelowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08926980202240271362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-39398444696767850612012-06-25T15:12:18.413-05:002012-06-25T15:12:18.413-05:00Bart,
To some degree. It echoes (and in some ways...Bart,<br /><br />To some degree. It echoes (and in some ways goes beyond) what I originally had in a Resolved section:<br /><br />RESOLVED, that we affirm the autonomy of local congregations in holding confessions of faith which may address matters not contained in, yet consistent with, the Baptist Faith and Message<br /><br />Whereas mine is specific to local congregations, the version from the Chris Robertshttp://www.seektheholy.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-55375956031692795972012-06-25T14:53:50.163-05:002012-06-25T14:53:50.163-05:00So, Chris, was that paragraph added by the committ...So, Chris, was that paragraph added by the committee?Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-25316976769876208112012-06-25T14:53:02.591-05:002012-06-25T14:53:02.591-05:00And, you've got to admit, the application of t...And, you've got to admit, the application of this motion to Calvinism supports my viewpoint. The idea with regard to Calvinism is simply that entities like Southern and Southeastern get to be more Calvinistic and have the Abstract and go beyond the BF&M.<br /><br />That's just not as controversial with regard to seminaries and Calvinism as it was with regard to baptism and the IMB.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-46998530875696323352012-06-25T14:52:17.350-05:002012-06-25T14:52:17.350-05:00What's sort of funny is that when I wrote the ...What's sort of funny is that when I wrote the original resolution I didn't have the Garner motion in mind. Someone mentioned it at the convention and I had to ask them what they were talking about. This marks one thing I appreciate about the way we do resolutions: the committee is able to improve them and add a perspective (in this case, historical) that the messenger may not have.Chris Robertshttp://www.seektheholy.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-17957897009114832602012-06-25T14:51:11.149-05:002012-06-25T14:51:11.149-05:00The debate in 2007 was anything BUT clear. The fir...The debate in 2007 was anything BUT clear. The first speaker out of the chute claimed that the Garner Motion was needed to protect the convention from liberal denials of the BF&M. Much obfuscation took place there. At least a part of the background in 2007 was the fact that I endorsed the Garner Motion before the debate ever took place and before we voted on it. The wording of the Garner Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-25695317885805983692012-06-25T14:43:03.484-05:002012-06-25T14:43:03.484-05:00Bart. And, we were agreeing on so much!
There we...Bart. And, we were agreeing on so much! <br /><br />There were probably 10 people in the whole convention who even made the connection. A vote on a statement absent a debate on a particular point can be interpreted many ways. We DID have the debate in 2007 and it was clear - and then the vote. Mohler knew what the vote said. That is why he addressed it the way he did and reinterpreted it. I Alan Crosshttp://downshoredrift.comnoreply@blogger.com