tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post729746166703390128..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: Is This Where the SBC Is?Bart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-87853240348038324402007-09-22T05:29:00.000-05:002007-09-22T05:29:00.000-05:00That is, although Les has commented over there, he...That is, although Les has commented over there, he refuses to answer at all the question posed in the original post. And nobody else who differs has stuck his head into that door at all.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-52131346485430432272007-09-22T05:26:00.000-05:002007-09-22T05:26:00.000-05:00Robert Hutchinson,You asked, "why must either bapt...Robert Hutchinson,<BR/><BR/>You asked, "why must either baptismal practice be labeled as sin? why not just label it as a difference of interpretation and conviction?"<BR/><BR/>I am fine with someone choosing to label it simply as a difference of interpretation and conviction, so long as one is therefore determined to join a Presbyterian or Congregationalist church. We do not (should not) be Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-32789568353264249122007-09-21T23:39:00.000-05:002007-09-21T23:39:00.000-05:00Yes, Bart. I understood and understand that you st...Yes, Bart. I understood and understand that you still think that you are correct in your initial view and you are just trying to meet your critics half way with the words you use. I never thought otherwise. <BR/><BR/>But, I do thank you for trying to build consensus at this point through a shift in terminology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-67204364543897364022007-09-21T22:46:00.000-05:002007-09-21T22:46:00.000-05:00no denial of religious liberty. point is that Chri...no denial of religious liberty. <BR/><BR/>point is that Christians who separated from "the church" over the conviction that the 1st century Christians baptized believers were branded as sinners who ought to repent. and were no longer part of the "true church."<BR/><BR/>now we have the children of the separatists telling Christians with the conviction that 1st century Christians practiced baby Robert Hutchinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00885634083422683757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-6580196917019798582007-09-21T19:56:00.000-05:002007-09-21T19:56:00.000-05:00Alan,I have changed terminology not out of any lac...Alan,<BR/><BR/>I have changed terminology not out of any lack of confidence in the original terminology, but out of a desire to build consensus.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-6854009475614494912007-09-21T19:54:00.000-05:002007-09-21T19:54:00.000-05:00Jeff,Even when I have employed different terminolo...Jeff,<BR/><BR/>Even when I have employed different terminology, I have received the same response.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-359890072108020232007-09-21T19:53:00.001-05:002007-09-21T19:53:00.001-05:00Robert H.,Is anyone here denying religious liberty...Robert H.,<BR/><BR/>Is anyone here denying religious liberty? I think not.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-48150365368306460512007-09-21T19:53:00.000-05:002007-09-21T19:53:00.000-05:00Alan,See my response to Les. My post was about ped...Alan,<BR/><BR/>See my response to Les. My post was about pedobaptism. Les objected to my post, which was solely and entirely about pedobaptism. I have not mischaracterized his position unless he has mischaracterized mine first.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-65818630625856685412007-09-21T19:52:00.000-05:002007-09-21T19:52:00.000-05:00Amy,I was on the Metro North Hudson Line. I accide...Amy,<BR/><BR/>I was on the Metro North Hudson Line. I accidentally got onto an express that didn't stop at Garrison. The next train did.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-4201236300961056782007-09-21T19:51:00.000-05:002007-09-21T19:51:00.000-05:00Jason,Not every difference is a difference worthy ...Jason,<BR/><BR/>Not every difference is a difference worthy of division. Personally, I think we are under obligation to Christ to remain united in the Body of Christ unless it would be sinful to remain.<BR/><BR/>But the Southern Baptist Convention is not a church. It is just a pragmatic missions network. We should all make our decisions about it according to what is best for our churches to Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-8311557522618161882007-09-21T19:50:00.000-05:002007-09-21T19:50:00.000-05:00Les, you said: "The jist of my post is this: your ...Les, you said: "The jist of my post is this: your contention that if a church is not Southern Baptist then they are in 'unrepentant sin.' This goes beyond paedobaptism."<BR/><BR/>Show me, sir, where I said it. I wrote a post about pedobaptism. Period.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-47331198130618819592007-09-21T17:33:00.000-05:002007-09-21T17:33:00.000-05:00Robin,Your last part would be accurate, but for Pr...Robin,<BR/><BR/>Your last part would be accurate, but for Presbyterians, they do not see paedobaptism in the same way as baptismal regeneration. So, they do not say that it saves the person. <BR/><BR/>But, to make this short, you are basically correct. It is the terminology that I believe is very counterproductive. Again, Bart and Dr. Yarnell have admitted as much.<BR/><BR/>Colin,<BR/><BR/>I hopeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-34701868835917872562007-09-21T17:01:00.000-05:002007-09-21T17:01:00.000-05:00AlanThanks for further clarification. Can I say t...Alan<BR/><BR/>Thanks for further clarification. Can I say that you do think that infant baptism is a sin in that it takes away from salvation by grace through faith, but that you do not want to call someone who believes in this practice an unrepentant sinner because you align that term with the unsaved?Robin Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01939225831411942124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-86400419031063270812007-09-21T16:50:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:50:00.000-05:00Robin,I missed your second question when I was ans...Robin,<BR/><BR/>I missed your second question when I was answering you to begin with. We believe that infant baptism is an erroneous position. We believe that baptism means something and that it is important because it was instituted by God. We believe that infant baptism misses God's will and falls short of His glory. Thus, according to the Biblical definition, everything that falls short of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-65156639911509686822007-09-21T16:45:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:45:00.000-05:00AlanDo you consider infant baptism wrong, but not ...Alan<BR/><BR/>Do you consider infant baptism wrong, but not a sin?Robin Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01939225831411942124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-59202275326814644582007-09-21T16:39:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:39:00.000-05:00Alan,You are taking out the phrase "make a practic...Alan,<BR/><BR/>You are taking out the phrase "make a practice of sinning" and substituting "unrepentant sinner." This is your concoction, not Scripture's. Scripture clearly in this passage speaks of thaose who make a practice of sinning. And even in this, what does John mean? He means those who do not turn to Christ for salvation. <BR/><BR/>How do we know this? He then says, "<I>No one who Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852203994400117805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-44773578668011970442007-09-21T16:27:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:27:00.000-05:00No Colin, if I am in unrepentant sin, then I keep ...No Colin, if I am in unrepentant sin, then I keep on sinning. If I keep on sinning, according to Scripture, I am showing that I am not a believer.<BR/><BR/>I do not believe that I do not sin. But, if I stay in a state of sin without conviction, repentance, and restoration, then I am showing that Holy Spirit is not within me because the purpose of the Holy Spirit is to convict the world of sin, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-17769087696530490882007-09-21T16:20:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:20:00.000-05:00AlanOne more thing, are you saying that something ...Alan<BR/><BR/>One more thing, are you saying that something can be contrary to what the bible teaches and is not sin? If you do not consider infant baptism a sin, then why does your church not accept those who were baptized as infants. I am still assuming that your church does not accept infant baptism. If you do not believe it is a sin, then what biblical basis do you have to reject it?Robin Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01939225831411942124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-55947030537121919102007-09-21T16:11:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:11:00.000-05:00AlanWhat I don't understand, and maybe you can sup...Alan<BR/><BR/>What I don't understand, and maybe you can supply an answer to this, is that churches that don't believe infant baptism is acceptable they do not allow that person into membership until they receive baptism by immersion. I assume you practice this also. So, why is the person not allowed membership? <BR/><BR/>Is it because the church believes infant baptism is not biblical and Robin Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01939225831411942124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-18975855860652010162007-09-21T16:08:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:08:00.000-05:00Les:Two things, if I may.Your assertion that this ...Les:<BR/><BR/>Two things, if I may.<BR/><BR/>Your assertion that this statement was claimed, "<I>if a church is not Southern Baptist then they are in 'unrepentant sin,'</I>" cannot be substantiated. Who said it?<BR/><BR/>Further, on Paedobaptism and covenant theology, can I offer this:<BR/><BR/><I>Infants do not directly manifest their faith by verbal confession. But the prayers of their parentsAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852203994400117805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-21865058337008264022007-09-21T16:02:00.000-05:002007-09-21T16:02:00.000-05:00Alan, I the passage of your argument:6 No one who ...Alan, I the passage of your argument:<BR/><BR/><I>6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him</I><BR/><BR/>Your argument is that this spells out the fate of one who is in "unrepentant sin." Yet the passage clearly is speaking of one who "makes a practice of sinning", and who is not born of God. For your argument to work, you would Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852203994400117805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-16629741500737881052007-09-21T15:43:00.000-05:002007-09-21T15:43:00.000-05:00LesI do have a grip and it is wrapped around God's...Les<BR/><BR/>I do have a grip and it is wrapped around God's Word.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the advice though.Robin Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01939225831411942124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-23043489658699597942007-09-21T15:24:00.000-05:002007-09-21T15:24:00.000-05:00Robin, Get a grip. Really. :)LesRobin, <BR/><BR/>Get a grip. Really. :)<BR/><BR/>LesWriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07212653606124739664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-342055296264180082007-09-21T15:18:00.000-05:002007-09-21T15:18:00.000-05:00Robin,You're dead wrong. Have you been following t...Robin,<BR/><BR/>You're dead wrong. Have you been following this debate? No one is trying to take the SBC away from a believer's baptism position. It is just that type of confusion that makes these conversations unfruitful and it attempts to pit brothers against one another over issues that we are not actually disagreeing over. I am a strong advocate of believer's baptism. I believe that it is theAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-51983708721388213112007-09-21T14:29:00.000-05:002007-09-21T14:29:00.000-05:00Dear Dr. BB,Have Baptists always stated it that wa...Dear Dr. BB,<BR/><BR/>Have Baptists always stated it that way, that those who "baptize" infants are in "unrepentant sin"? I believe that this way of putting the issue is difficult to swallow, even for those of us who believe firmly that immersion is the only baptism.<BR/><BR/>Love in Christ,<BR/><BR/>JeffJeff Richard Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733241874625816333noreply@blogger.com