tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post898766657934909882..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: If Heaven Ain't A Lot Like Dixie?Bart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-42080913872010853252010-01-27T15:47:20.283-06:002010-01-27T15:47:20.283-06:00Bart:
I like that thought.
I do a lot of work ...Bart:<br /><br />I like that thought. <br /><br />I do a lot of work in the area of public utilities (water/sewer).<br /><br />A first principle there is quality. If the water doesn't meet quality standards, then it doesn't matter how much you can produce.<br /><br />So, we should be concerned with quality.<br /><br />But being overly concerned with "success" can cause one to Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-81553164631575020582010-01-26T20:32:33.368-06:002010-01-26T20:32:33.368-06:00Because our polity is local, the Southernness or l...Because our polity is local, the Southernness or lack thereof of any particular local congregation is just not going to be affected very much by even the policies of the SBC, let alone the name.<br /><br />Some church starts are going to adapt to their circumstances, and some are not. Some church plants will fail, and others will succeed. I believe that the secret to successful evangelism and Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-67539288229341110362010-01-26T17:37:16.734-06:002010-01-26T17:37:16.734-06:00Anon:
Interesting. But if the person joins the c...Anon:<br /><br />Interesting. But if the person joins the church I am sure that they are told at some point they are joining a "Southern" Baptist Church.<br /><br />How would folks around there react to that? They could say, "So what", "Great, I always liked General Lee", or I am not Southern, we are not in the South, why is this thing "Southern."<br /><Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-18721105875732719282010-01-26T15:52:20.883-06:002010-01-26T15:52:20.883-06:00The only problem with the name 'Southern Bapti...The <b>only</b> problem with the name 'Southern Baptist Convention' is when 'Southern' culture is inappropriately propagated in a context that is not 'southern'.<br /><br />I live in a suburban county of St. Louis that at one time was more rural, but now is more of a poorer suburban extension of the metro area. Twenty years ago the local FBC planted another church in the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-76767161389335129442010-01-26T11:48:45.702-06:002010-01-26T11:48:45.702-06:00Steve:
You are right. Name changes alone do noth...Steve:<br /><br />You are right. Name changes alone do nothing.<br /><br />I am more positive about the SBC because I look at it along a continuim. There are many advantages to the SBC and good things that we take for granted.<br /><br />The things that need improvement, however, are often matters that do not relate to corporate, governance and structure.<br /><br />The SBC is really only a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-84745236667984228472010-01-26T11:38:52.792-06:002010-01-26T11:38:52.792-06:00I had to come back to this for a moment, not knowi...I had to come back to this for a moment, not knowing if any of you would read this.<br /><br />But for every example of a bad attempt at a corporate name change, there are probably more that were successful. When you have the time, take a look at corporate name changes in the U.S. It may surprise you.<br /><br />Peter, I am licensed to practice law in Georgia. I am not a corporate law expert, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-8616322930323159892010-01-26T09:57:00.501-06:002010-01-26T09:57:00.501-06:00Interesting topic and interesting debate. Let me ...Interesting topic and interesting debate. Let me take a stab at branding from a different angle. How about Mountain Dew? Have you seen the any of the "throw back" bottles lately? How many remember the old hillbilly shouting "yahoo, Mountain Dew" in his best Dogpatch voice? But Mountain Dew did change, not the name, but the identity. Now it is the hip, "X game" Steve Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04858156317482625056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-37485390953544492622010-01-25T20:20:45.354-06:002010-01-25T20:20:45.354-06:00"You both have now touched upon really the on..."You both have now touched upon really the only reason to keep a name. If by changing the name you lose something that is central to the organization, its connection to people etc. In my opinion, that question is a judgment call without any hard data. some fear the loss of a positive brand. Others fear the loss of opportunity to bring in new people if the name is not changed."<br /><brpeter lumpkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00515936082186368659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-69111322206639038372010-01-25T17:42:02.504-06:002010-01-25T17:42:02.504-06:00"As I stated above, the Southern Baptist Conv..."As I stated above, the Southern Baptist Convention has accumulated a certain brand value. Although our history and tradition have been involved in the formation of this brand, the effect of the brand has to do with the present and the future as much as it has to do with the past.<br /><br />To do away with "The Southern Baptist Convention" is to lose the positive effectiveness of Warrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04436991200159165739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-42953810155692229292010-01-25T16:17:03.700-06:002010-01-25T16:17:03.700-06:00Bart and David:
Thanks for your thoughts and an i...Bart and David:<br /><br />Thanks for your thoughts and an interesting discussion.<br /><br />I am familiar with branding and the concept of goodwill.<br /><br />You both have now touched upon really the only reason to keep a name. If by changing the name you lose something that is central to the organization, its connection to people etc.<br /><br />In my opinion, that question is a judgment Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-70472182923426189392010-01-25T15:09:58.589-06:002010-01-25T15:09:58.589-06:00Louis,
I was and am for the change from Baptist Bo...Louis,<br />I was and am for the change from Baptist Book Store and Sunday School Board to LifeWay. I think Jimmy Draper did an exceptional job during his time at LifeWay. <br /><br />On the other hand, I’m against changing the name of the SBC. “Southern Baptist Convention” has become a brand name. SBC does not sum up some outdated southern culture. It sums up a theology and a people David R. Brumbelowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08926980202240271362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-13846723771189521582010-01-25T12:18:09.880-06:002010-01-25T12:18:09.880-06:00Louis,
I'm not communicating very well today....Louis,<br /><br />I'm not communicating very well today. My apologies for not getting across clearly what I was trying to say. Let me try again.<br /><br />=======<br /> LIFEWAY<br />=======<br /><br />I didn't think that I was arguing against the Lifeway name change, nor did I think that I was disputing that it might have helped sales. My (obviously poorly worded) point was that I thinkBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-70709194540641748202010-01-25T11:25:06.765-06:002010-01-25T11:25:06.765-06:00Bart: as always, thanks for the respectful respon...Bart: as always, thanks for the respectful response.<br /><br />However, summarizing this issue as a "I like potato you like potato" is not helpful without emphasizing the "why".<br /><br />I like the name change because of the consistent vision issue that I articulated. it is logical. it becomes more logical over time as our nation gets smaller due to increased travel and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-5005222109611835552010-01-25T11:17:38.016-06:002010-01-25T11:17:38.016-06:00Dave,
Thanks for stopping by. It's great to i...Dave,<br /><br />Thanks for stopping by. It's great to interact with you.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-61376722170370333772010-01-25T11:05:16.685-06:002010-01-25T11:05:16.685-06:00Steve:
The "LA Lakers" bit was priceles...Steve:<br /><br />The "LA Lakers" bit was priceless! :-)Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-61109028220099069142010-01-25T10:18:09.804-06:002010-01-25T10:18:09.804-06:00Bart,
While serving in Wyoming I chaired a credent...Bart,<br />While serving in Wyoming I chaired a credentials that recommended church for inclusion in our Association. This church had a long history in the ABC. Because of a leftward move by their convention, they sought a new affiliation. They studied options for one year. I'll never forget one of their leaders holding up a BFM and saying, "I want to be a part of something that Steve Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04858156317482625056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-49539101161877853492010-01-25T10:05:38.578-06:002010-01-25T10:05:38.578-06:00Louis,
I forgot one thing to add. You mention &qu...Louis,<br /><br />I forgot one thing to add. You mention "The American Baptists have not been effective for a host of reasons." With that statement, you brush aside this segment of my post.<br /><br />But I think that you may have missed the point.<br /><br />Yes, the American Baptists have not been effective. But my point is that they are more effective in one region and less effectiveBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-37356962543728383822010-01-25T09:55:00.847-06:002010-01-25T09:55:00.847-06:00OK, Louis, here goes...
First, I would differenti...OK, Louis, here goes...<br /><br />First, I would differentiate between Southern Baptist efforts to preach the gospel and plant churches in the non-Southern regions of the United States versus our efforts to preach the gospel and plant churches around the world. We hope to plant churches around the world, but we have no intention of those churches becoming member congregations of the Southern Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-34875794401116200842010-01-25T09:33:24.727-06:002010-01-25T09:33:24.727-06:00I should have had Louis write my post for me.I should have had Louis write my post for me.Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-61601880631688972062010-01-25T09:31:02.088-06:002010-01-25T09:31:02.088-06:00I would just like to state something, since my nam...I would just like to state something, since my name was mentioned here. <br /><br />I read Bart's post and found it very informative. As usual, he presented his case very well, and made some points that I think have to be considered by anyone like myself who is advocating change. <br /><br />I did not respond because I have been involved with two deaths/funerals and I did not have the time Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-49933991876723331182010-01-25T09:17:09.876-06:002010-01-25T09:17:09.876-06:00Louis,
You make a good argument that fits in none...Louis,<br /><br />You make a good argument that fits in none of the categories that I had addressed before. To summarize, I had dealt in some fashion with three ideas:<br /><br />1. The argument from identity: The SBC is not Southern.<br /><br />2. The argument from pragmatism: Removing the "Southern" in the SBC's name would help our church planting and evangelism efforts beyond theBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-16738913455615798812010-01-25T08:11:21.167-06:002010-01-25T08:11:21.167-06:00Media: Today, the Southern Baptist Convention chan...Media: Today, the Southern Baptist Convention changed its name to “The … Convention.”<br /><br />Public: Chuckle. A rose by any other name.<br /><br />___<br /><br />Media: Today, the Southern Baptist Convention, while affirming its particular traditions and beliefs, decided to be a religious entity that would be less divisive among and more collaborative with other faith groups seeking to bapticus hereticushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04526321800594075557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-79820975914956297082010-01-25T08:00:28.270-06:002010-01-25T08:00:28.270-06:00Wow. Looks like I missed all of the fun.
I am fo...Wow. Looks like I missed all of the fun.<br /><br />I am for a name change.<br /><br />Will it make a big difference? No. But I believe that it will accurately reflect what the SBC is and desires to be.<br /><br />The SBC started as a regional body, with an intentional emphasis on Southern. That meant geographically, but more importantly, culturally. I am not for constantly whipping Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-21463970975008982802010-01-24T23:15:17.572-06:002010-01-24T23:15:17.572-06:00Anonymous:
:-)
I enjoyed that comment.Anonymous:<br /><br />:-)<br /><br />I enjoyed that comment.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-39174305939377937872010-01-24T23:07:13.472-06:002010-01-24T23:07:13.472-06:00well Bart. here is a compromose.. how about
"...well Bart. here is a compromose.. how about<br />"The Predominately Southern Baptist Convention"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com