tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post1077109098404105843..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: Vignettes from the TBN Appearance: Part 1Bart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-24216184943779065352007-12-15T15:15:00.000-06:002007-12-15T15:15:00.000-06:00By Alan Cross,Bart, if I want to see what comprise...By Alan Cross,<BR/><BR/>Bart, if I want to see what comprises what the Holy Spirit is doing, all that I have to do is look at the SBC, right? That's the message that I get on this blog and the blogs of your cohorts.<BR/><BR/>In reality, Bart, the very things that you hate about Pentecostalism have been said by you and your friends, i.e., if you don't do everything and believe everything exactly Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-30164020845363255262007-12-15T11:16:00.000-06:002007-12-15T11:16:00.000-06:00Todd,In general, I do not disagree. I said somethi...Todd,<BR/><BR/>In general, I do not disagree. I said <A HREF="http://praisegodbarebones.blogspot.com/2007/07/something-nice-about-pentecostalism.html" REL="nofollow">something compatible with your comment</A> earlier. Yet there is great difference over what constitutes the best of Pentecostalism.<BR/><BR/>Here's the WORST of Pentecostalism: The way it asserts that its eccentricities and Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-23278677557820716082007-12-15T10:01:00.000-06:002007-12-15T10:01:00.000-06:00Bart,In the previous comment stream, (December 14,...Bart,<BR/><BR/>In the previous comment stream, (December 14, 2007 12:32 PM), you replied to me...<BR/><BR/>"Yes, certainly Pentecostals have never disagreed, never split into various Pentecostal denominations, never split churches, never exhibit carnality. Oh, God, that we could become more like them!"<BR/><BR/>Looks like I'm the last one to comment on that post, so if you don't mind, I'll copy Todd Nelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18131930025633807723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-65555881408255989132007-12-15T05:08:00.000-06:002007-12-15T05:08:00.000-06:00Tom,Welcome, brother, and thanks for commenting. T...Tom,<BR/><BR/>Welcome, brother, and thanks for commenting. That snippet cometh later.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-77794242256001645572007-12-14T20:13:00.000-06:002007-12-14T20:13:00.000-06:00bart,some people just want to spin and slide right...bart,<BR/><BR/>some people just want to spin and slide right out of the truth. some people will not see what is true.<BR/><BR/>i will say again. i wish that dwight would not have gone on tbn. i dont think that it was the wise thing to do, but that's his call. also, i wish that dwight mckissic would have at least challenged the statements made by all the others that were so off the wall and volfan007https://www.blogger.com/profile/15635929001030697924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-75870166153964972292007-12-14T20:05:00.000-06:002007-12-14T20:05:00.000-06:00Bart:One of the most egregious comments made on th...Bart:<BR/><BR/>One of the most egregious comments made on this program (and the competition was stiff) was by Hogue when he said, "The church produced the Bible." That is Romanism 101. Jesus promised that He would do things exactly opposite this in Matthew 16:18. The Word produces the church.<BR/><BR/>Despite their assurances to the contrary, it is this very point of denigrating the Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055905333350570428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-74550238749765744072007-12-14T17:02:00.000-06:002007-12-14T17:02:00.000-06:00Until a year ago, Scott Camp's name was more promi...Until a year ago, Scott Camp's name was more prominent than Dwight McKissic's.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-3693453304573985602007-12-14T17:01:00.000-06:002007-12-14T17:01:00.000-06:00Alan,NOBODY knows a man who is a former Dean at Cr...Alan,<BR/><BR/>NOBODY knows a man who is a former Dean at Criswell College, pastor of a Metroplex church, member of Pastor McKissic's Arlington Roundtable, etc.?Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-54720622997478319582007-12-14T16:50:00.000-06:002007-12-14T16:50:00.000-06:00Alan Cross says,Bart, this is shocking! Thanks to ...Alan Cross says,<BR/><BR/>Bart, this is shocking! Thanks to your insightful posts we now know that TBN supports speaking in tongues! I had no idea! Where would we be without this type of blogging?<BR/><BR/>Seriously, Bart, I have no idea who these men are. Neither does anyone else. You can find a couple of Southern Baptist pastors to advocate anything, but a movement it hardly makes. I listened Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-39788124518178932722007-12-14T16:22:00.000-06:002007-12-14T16:22:00.000-06:00you didn't Bart. But others who have commented he...you didn't Bart. But others who have commented here have, although perhaps on another blog.<BR/><BR/>Forgive me if I've confused yours with someone else's..https://www.blogger.com/profile/13856253694243784280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-68829451220910263922007-12-14T16:09:00.000-06:002007-12-14T16:09:00.000-06:00OK, Joel, we're almost there... Now, where did I s...OK, Joel, we're almost there... Now, where did I say that Pastor McKissic attacked Dr. Patterson?Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-53455253528482675342007-12-14T16:06:00.000-06:002007-12-14T16:06:00.000-06:00Bart,I stand corrected regarding Camp and Miller. ...Bart,<BR/><BR/>I stand corrected regarding Camp and Miller. I was not aware that they were still SBC.<BR/><BR/>I agree with you that Dwight was the "sanest one" on the stage. That only proves my point that he isn't interested in forwarding Pentecostal understandings of the Holy Spirit, else he would be out of sync with the BFM.<BR/><BR/>I also think the contention that he "attacked" Dr. .https://www.blogger.com/profile/13856253694243784280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-19389937693708279482007-12-14T15:45:00.000-06:002007-12-14T15:45:00.000-06:00Joel,Theme of the Program: Differences over Tongue...Joel,<BR/><BR/>Theme of the Program: Differences over Tongues in the SBC.<BR/><BR/>Arthur Blessitt: Former SBCer called upon to look into the camera and speak a word to Southern Baptist pastors to help them start speaking in tongues and come to the TBN "light."<BR/><BR/>Richard Hogue: Former SBCer host who asked every participant to engage in the "look at the camera" and proselytize SBC pastors Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-51570630510022615272007-12-14T15:30:00.001-06:002007-12-14T15:30:00.001-06:00Guys,I not only "second" what Welty has already po...Guys,<BR/>I not only "second" what Welty has already pointed out, but fail to see again from this vignette how it is demonstrated that anyone still within the SBC wants these doctrines taught.<BR/><BR/>Ron P.,<BR/>According to my understanding of the BFM statements on both salvation and the Holy Spirit, a person confessing a classical Pentecostal pneumetology would NOT be within "Baptist" bounds..https://www.blogger.com/profile/13856253694243784280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-34501417329239340732007-12-14T15:30:00.000-06:002007-12-14T15:30:00.000-06:00Greg,My very next post will exclusively address so...Greg,<BR/><BR/>My very next post will exclusively address some of Pastor McKissic's words. I aspire to do so in a loving, forthright tone without misrepresenting him at all, but differing sharply with what he has said.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-23311695767252886242007-12-14T14:46:00.000-06:002007-12-14T14:46:00.000-06:00Greg,I spent some time early today laboring hard t...Greg,<BR/><BR/>I spent some time early today laboring hard to transcribe as much of the program as I could. I plan to present several vignettes over the next several posts. I do not plan to exclude Pastor McKissic—I plan to highlight some areas in which we agree and some areas in which we disagree. Each post will concern the actual statements and personalities involved in the snippets Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-20310869174506176722007-12-14T14:39:00.000-06:002007-12-14T14:39:00.000-06:00Bart,You're right. This post isn't about McKissic....Bart,<BR/><BR/>You're right. This post isn't about McKissic. Sorry if I got things a bit off track. I guess I had the previous post in mind, and the commentary there.<BR/><BR/>In other words, you made this post just so we could comment on Hogue, Camp, and Miller, and their view of tongues in general. OK.<BR/><BR/>That's too bad, though, because I had a follow-up comment all typed up which Greg Weltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11009322440200137155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-66285137022657779942007-12-14T14:23:00.000-06:002007-12-14T14:23:00.000-06:00Greg,After watching the program for the second tim...Greg,<BR/>After watching the program for the second time, I am reaching the same observations that you are. Great breakdown. My concern with the "attacks" on Dr. Patterson stem from the laughing and the manner in which the info was given and requested. I would have preferred a straight up "not going there!" I also shared this with Dwight.<BR/><BR/>Bart, you are also correct that you did not Tim Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10885623376514366024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-25831359027736252992007-12-14T14:08:00.000-06:002007-12-14T14:08:00.000-06:00My apologies on your next post Bart. I must admit ...My apologies on your next post Bart. I must admit to not have reading it as close as I should have.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-67213780584647954292007-12-14T14:04:00.000-06:002007-12-14T14:04:00.000-06:00Greg,I am not in the least annoyed. This post is n...Greg,<BR/><BR/>I am not in the least annoyed. This post is not about Dwight McKissic. What you have clarified does not contradict anything I have said, I don't think.<BR/><BR/>Do you think that it does? You have a keen mind for reading comprehension. If I have implied that this is McKissic's view, then I have done so not only inadvertently, but also contrary to my own careful efforts not to do so.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-47968946209347458202007-12-14T14:02:00.000-06:002007-12-14T14:02:00.000-06:00Bart,You might be annoyed that I'm pointing this o...Bart,<BR/><BR/>You might be annoyed that I'm pointing this out, but here goes :-)<BR/><BR/>During the discussion you cite, Miller and Camp are discussing their views, and the camera pulls back, and it's clear that Dwight is *not* nodding his head.<BR/><BR/>Interesting, though, Dwight is the only panelist to not answer the host's question as to whether tongues are for everyone if they're a gift ofGreg Weltyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11009322440200137155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-90162191756222176662007-12-14T13:38:00.000-06:002007-12-14T13:38:00.000-06:00FishForMen,You are not a full-blown cessationist. ...FishForMen,<BR/><BR/>You are not a full-blown cessationist. I am not a full-blown cessationist. Dwain Miller made a great case on the program that Paige Patterson is not a full-blown cessationist.<BR/><BR/>Who is publicly involved in this Southern Baptist debate who IS a cessationist?<BR/><BR/>You can probably drop the disclaimer, just as you need not remind us that you are not a Martian.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-34864875186719118192007-12-14T13:36:00.000-06:002007-12-14T13:36:00.000-06:00I have been doing pastor's conferences overseas fo...I have been doing pastor's conferences overseas for 6 years now. On the first 2 we had a pastor who was into the PPL. We asked him to not make this a point because we were here to encourage pastors to evangelism and stronger exposition. After the 2nd year, this pastor used his ppl publicly during a corporate prayer session. No one could interpret, and the indigenous pastors were unaware of what Chris Gilliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03765218586483783054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-64125033752437497622007-12-14T13:33:00.000-06:002007-12-14T13:33:00.000-06:00I think the clip also illustrates the difference b...I think the clip also illustrates the difference between someone like Richard Hogue who has moved out of Southern Baptist life and someone like Camp—Hogue and camp believe the same thing. Hogue is right out in the open in his belief that every Christian ought to speak in tongues; Camp has to have it dragged out of him by Hogue. Camp believes it, but really doesn't want to say it outright.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-91111521891217089912007-12-14T13:27:00.000-06:002007-12-14T13:27:00.000-06:00I posted on the wrong post. My apologies. I'm so c...I posted on the wrong post. My apologies. I'm so confused which post is what.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.com