tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post118341769820701557..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: Changing the Denominational MapBart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-44341114978874772442010-01-29T16:36:24.866-06:002010-01-29T16:36:24.866-06:00Make that :
I see the 'competition' in Me...Make that :<br /> I see the 'competition' in Mexico as being much stiffer than the 'competition in the US.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-73894995263552876352010-01-29T16:34:14.833-06:002010-01-29T16:34:14.833-06:00There is a great migration occurring today. Hispan...There is a great migration occurring today. Hispanics are moving into all parts of the US. Belief in Mexico is so prevalent that common folk have a hard time imagining doubt. They are bringing those beliefs with them. I don't imagine that non-Catholics would be drawn to Catholicism brought to their communities by an influx of Hispanics. At least for a generation services will be mostly in Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-53770428317349275982010-01-28T09:54:15.090-06:002010-01-28T09:54:15.090-06:00How about heresy -- maybe schism is a better word ...How about heresy -- maybe schism is a better word -- does it change the denominational map?<br /><br />Formerly Episcopal areas might become more Catholic or evangelical, denominations might dwindle in numbers; do these trends accrue any significant numbers?<br /><br />Probably not; you have probably identified the major factors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-49581269289979441102010-01-26T10:01:42.462-06:002010-01-26T10:01:42.462-06:00Dave,
If the SBC changed its name to the name of y...Dave,<br />If the SBC changed its name to the name of your choice. Would you then lead your church to be more denominational; beyond Lottie and Annie? <br /><br />Frankly, I think most of our churches, north or south, are not super denominational and the pastor just makes occasional comments about the SBC and mission offerings. Maybe they say a little about one of our denominational calendar David R. Brumbelowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08926980202240271362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-27497969322245506422010-01-26T09:52:51.714-06:002010-01-26T09:52:51.714-06:00Brother Bart,
That answers my question. And thank...Brother Bart,<br /><br />That answers my question. And thanks for the recommendation. I am going to add that to my reading list.<br /><br />Peace to you brother,<br />From the Middle EastFrom the Middle Easthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509281349717741174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-64818826963677381662010-01-26T09:46:52.982-06:002010-01-26T09:46:52.982-06:00FTME,
I'm not merely saying that they were de...FTME,<br /><br />I'm not merely saying that they were depraved. I'm saying that entire generations had grown up with no impact whatsoever of church upon their lives and that they expressly rejected Christianity. Answering your question is a difficult one, because no such thing as a Pew Research Grant existed back then, and people did not hazard a trip out into the wild frontier to ask Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-23660347831653689832010-01-26T09:31:07.691-06:002010-01-26T09:31:07.691-06:00Brother Bart,
I'm not asking if they were dep...Brother Bart,<br /><br />I'm not asking if they were depraved or Christian in the biblical understanding of the word. Clearly they were not. My question is whether or not they called themselves "Christian" thus the use of the term "culturally Christian." For example, around 75-80% of Americans consider themselves Christian, clearly not that many follow the teachings of From the Middle Easthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509281349717741174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-6008366211446169412010-01-26T09:19:10.984-06:002010-01-26T09:19:10.984-06:00Andrew,
I owe thanks to you, sir. The reason why ...Andrew,<br /><br />I owe thanks to you, sir. The reason why I continue to blog is because it makes me think. I do it for myself. And you, in asking your question, made me think. You made me think so much that I thought up another post!Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-19718934931063869302010-01-26T09:18:08.603-06:002010-01-26T09:18:08.603-06:00FTME,
"Culturally Christian"?
I'm ...FTME,<br /><br />"Culturally Christian"?<br /><br />I'm tempted to reproduce in its entirety a paper that I once authored, but I'll restrain myself. Suffice it to say that, in my estimation, the colonial population of the Piedmont (and even the western extremes of the Tidewater) in 1730 or so was culturally post-Christian, and radically, depravedly so. I've seen no evidence Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-45523230891976891452010-01-25T23:18:36.557-06:002010-01-25T23:18:36.557-06:00Bart:
Thanks for honoring me with the quote in th...Bart:<br /><br />Thanks for honoring me with the quote in the last post. Who would have thought that I could be so inspiring? All kidding aside, I really do appreciate that...my friends here at seminary think it was cool too!<br /><br />I agree something is going to have to shake us up, either economic or spiritual...I'd pray for both (Matthew 6:24)! <br /><br />I also agree about the lack ofAndrewhttp://adubhigg.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-12030169727479891742010-01-25T23:12:32.351-06:002010-01-25T23:12:32.351-06:00Brother Bart,
You asked:
"But the kind of dr...Brother Bart,<br /><br />You asked:<br />"But the kind of dramatic change wrought by the great reformations or spiritual awakenings of the past?"<br /><br />Are you referring to those spiritual awakenings which occurred among already culturally "Christian" peoples?<br /><br />Peace to you brother,<br />From the Middle EastFrom the Middle Easthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07509281349717741174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-69304744995709714852010-01-25T19:35:46.344-06:002010-01-25T19:35:46.344-06:00Dave:
Thanks.
Are you going to be at the Conven...Dave:<br /><br />Thanks. <br /><br />Are you going to be at the Convention this year?<br /><br />I'll try to look you up.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-47446600412690390332010-01-25T17:37:35.553-06:002010-01-25T17:37:35.553-06:00Louis, when are you going to stop being just a com...Louis, when are you going to stop being just a commenter and become a blogger?Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-2082300187774939992010-01-25T17:35:05.521-06:002010-01-25T17:35:05.521-06:00Bart:
Great question.
Planned spiritual awakenin...Bart:<br /><br />Great question.<br /><br />Planned spiritual awakenings and "changing the map" are things that are not within our grasp.<br /><br />It's a lot like the communists and socialists continued attempts to "plan" and economy. It doesn't work that way.<br /><br />We can send where there is a need and be faithful. God does the rest.<br /><br />We have such aAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-88548512187019111752010-01-25T17:25:51.980-06:002010-01-25T17:25:51.980-06:00Dave:
We have never met, but your church sounds g...Dave:<br /><br />We have never met, but your church sounds great. We started a church in a metropolitan area in the mid-south. The IMB is regulary talked about, but not much else in SBC life. Our people have no idea what the CR is for the most part, but they receive really strong Bible teaching and doctrine.<br /><br />I can identify with what you are saying.<br /><br />LouisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-79990367313174019572010-01-25T16:39:17.872-06:002010-01-25T16:39:17.872-06:00Or, just insert the word "state" in the ...Or, just insert the word "state" in the place of "nation" and it fits our earlier conversation.<br /><br />What will it take to have the kind of impact outside the South (in this nation and beyond) that we've had inside the South. That's what I'm talking about.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-10158405071888431872010-01-25T16:38:10.578-06:002010-01-25T16:38:10.578-06:00Agreed, Dave. The kid-on-the-beach-throwing-the-st...Agreed, Dave. The kid-on-the-beach-throwing-the-starfish-to-sea story is appropriate here. I'm not saying, "If we don't change the map, then it isn't really worth our effort to do anything."<br /><br />Rather, as the title of the post indicates, I'm talking about the kind of changes that take place when a nation that was once considered an "Islamic nation" is Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-59481761160475178392010-01-25T16:23:56.552-06:002010-01-25T16:23:56.552-06:00Actually, its possible that our missionaries did, ...Actually, its possible that our missionaries did, in fact, have more of a impact than we sometimes realize. <br /><br />I lived in Taiwan for several years (dad was an SBC missionary). Many of the older missionaries had been in mainland China before the Communist takeover (1949?). When they were forced to leave China, they followed the government into exile in Taiwan. <br /><br />At all of Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-5293172272379202692010-01-25T16:08:32.313-06:002010-01-25T16:08:32.313-06:00What's more—to dare to utter what might be abs...What's more—to dare to utter what might be absolute SBC HERESY—I can't see that 220 years of Baptist missionary activity has made much of a dent on the world map, either.<br /><br />We've been sending missionaries to China since the beginning. Christianity is still a footnote in China. We've been sending missionaries to Brazil since the beginning. Brazil is still 74% Catholic. We Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-16243476456034265772010-01-25T16:03:30.247-06:002010-01-25T16:03:30.247-06:00Granted, Dave, and I'm thankful for what you a...Granted, Dave, and I'm thankful for what you are doing there. One of the strengths of Baptist polity, IMHO, is that the denomination is (ought to be) decidedly SECONDARY to the local church. What you're doing is a good thing.<br /><br />But to see the map differently will require something an order of magnitude more than what you guys are able to accomplish alone. I'm not just talkingBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-78200131592938935102010-01-25T15:58:18.908-06:002010-01-25T15:58:18.908-06:00I think that has motivated a lot of my thinking in...I think that has motivated a lot of my thinking in some of these discussions we've had in blogdom - trying to distinguish the essential from the cultural. I guess everyone has to do that, but being "Southern" Baptist outside the south kind of forces that on us a little more.Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-84079862682425909072010-01-25T15:56:33.157-06:002010-01-25T15:56:33.157-06:00One of the things we are finding here is that we h...One of the things we are finding here is that we have to identify and reproduce (and I know this is going to sound kind like psycho-babble) a specifically Iowa version of a Southern baptist church. We don't want to change doctrine or polity or those kinds of things, but want to adapt Baptist practice to Iowa culture. <br /><br />Some churches have done that well. My church is unashamed of Dave Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01637750764381837761noreply@blogger.com