tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post1575403459216442961..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: GCR: My Final Thoughts on the Final ReportBart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-62823535404035333672010-05-28T23:44:17.731-05:002010-05-28T23:44:17.731-05:00Bart,
:)
DavidBart,<br /><br />:)<br /><br />Davidvolfan007https://www.blogger.com/profile/15635929001030697924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-11510704672896024762010-05-28T20:25:59.249-05:002010-05-28T20:25:59.249-05:00David,
You don't have to answer that last que...David,<br /><br />You don't have to answer that last question, brother. I'm just pulling your chain a bit.<br /><br />Here's what I want.<br /><br />Among those who support the GCRTF, there are a few thugs who are going to suggest that anyone who opposes the report is actually opposed to the Great Commission. Of course, that's not true, and they ought to know better. The people Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-45012554570298588792010-05-28T19:49:21.032-05:002010-05-28T19:49:21.032-05:00David,
Being the opponent of societal giving syst...David,<br /><br />Being the opponent of societal giving systems that you are, can I infer that you are in favor of doing away with the Lottie Moon Christmas Offering?Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-87111332697938166472010-05-28T19:48:46.596-05:002010-05-28T19:48:46.596-05:00Thanks, Stuart. I appreciate it, brother.Thanks, Stuart. I appreciate it, brother.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-11584027962217161282010-05-28T19:11:01.772-05:002010-05-28T19:11:01.772-05:00Bart,
But....but....CP giving has been emphasized...Bart,<br /><br />But....but....CP giving has been emphasized up til now. Churches have been encouraged to give more to the CP. We've made an intential effort to support giving cooperatively to missions thru the CP...as a convention of Baptist Churches. But, if this new buzzword is passed, GC Giving, then I'd bet'cha a krispy Kreme doughnut that you want hear the CP being promoted volfan007https://www.blogger.com/profile/15635929001030697924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-84281995847595097212010-05-28T15:29:23.493-05:002010-05-28T15:29:23.493-05:00Bart,
It's easy to say "great post"...Bart,<br /><br />It's easy to say "great post" because I generally agree with everything you've written.<br /><br />But more than that, the thing I've always appreciated about your posts (even when I've disagreed with you on a particular matter) is that you think critically and write clearly, and in that order.<br /><br />This article is no exception to that rule. And Stuartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-86144101955601366112010-05-27T17:56:17.781-05:002010-05-27T17:56:17.781-05:00David,
1. People who don't like the CP and do...David,<br /><br />1. People who don't like the CP and don't give through the CP are people who ALREADY try to emphasize designated giving and de-emphasize the CP. All that they are gaining here is a different name.<br /><br />2. Presidential candidates with sorry CP giving records already try to minimize their CP giving and talk about designated giving.<br /><br />Why don't they Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-82259375756143184842010-05-27T16:56:09.124-05:002010-05-27T16:56:09.124-05:00Bart,
In the past, CP giving is emphasized. I can...Bart,<br /><br />In the past, CP giving is emphasized. I can certainly see Great Commission Giving being the watchword now...instead of CP giving. <br /><br />Societal giving is when my Church can give more of a percentage to the Childrens Homes in the TBC, and we can give another high percentage to Union University, and we can report that we give a huge percentage to SB causes...all while volfan007https://www.blogger.com/profile/15635929001030697924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-65381045155172716662010-05-27T16:32:55.769-05:002010-05-27T16:32:55.769-05:00By the way, David, regarding the needs of state co...By the way, David, regarding the needs of state conventions, we've got some ministries here at FBC Farmersville that could use an infusion of cash, and I was hoping to send a bill over to your church so that you guys could fund our ministries.<br /><br />Should I send the bill to your attention? You can send the check to mine.<br /><br />;-)Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-28574981384646530482010-05-27T16:23:30.261-05:002010-05-27T16:23:30.261-05:00David,
You'll find no more stalwart an oppone...David,<br /><br />You'll find no more stalwart an opponent of societal giving than me.<br /><br />Here's where I have trouble following: Can you show me how component #3 makes our system the tiniest bit more societal than it is today?<br /><br />As for presidential candidates, the very fact that you hold the opinion that you hold is proof of why I don't think you are correct in your Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-13819234321318670832010-05-27T16:17:57.909-05:002010-05-27T16:17:57.909-05:00Bart,
The change in reporting giving is my greate...Bart,<br /><br />The change in reporting giving is my greatest concern, and after reading what you wrote, it's still my greatest concern. I still think that this will lead to societal giving, and while it may not be the end of the CP, it will severely hurt it. Maybe end it...over time. And, when that's gone, what's left? Societal type giving.<br /><br />And yes, while designated volfan007https://www.blogger.com/profile/15635929001030697924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-45183627098208506132010-05-27T12:47:12.442-05:002010-05-27T12:47:12.442-05:00David Brumbelow,
You have hit on a key issue I hav...David Brumbelow,<br />You have hit on a key issue I have heard voiced and you have actually come up with a great way of adjusting the issue. <br /><br />The word designated is important on more than one level.<br /><br />1. It would signify non CP giving<br />2. It would eliminate confusion in future SBC Presidential Nominating Speaches.<br />3. It would place DGCR giving back under CP givingTim Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10885623376514366024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-91740090517521617672010-05-27T12:02:54.220-05:002010-05-27T12:02:54.220-05:00David Brumbelow,
Don't miss my comments about...David Brumbelow,<br /><br />Don't miss my comments about you in my response to Tim. You have a good point.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-31699638859359004692010-05-27T12:00:57.317-05:002010-05-27T12:00:57.317-05:00Bart & Tim,
Watching this tennis match has be...Bart & Tim,<br /><br />Watching this tennis match has been quite exciting...but I think Blogger has a point...brevity is the soul of wit! :-)<br /><br />As I have already started down this road with a post on SBC Today, Bart, I concur with your assessment here. I also find myself quite willing to support the recommendations of the Task Force's Final Report.<br /><br />Please be sure to Scott Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12557513032999366380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-47252940874485423042010-05-27T11:59:51.870-05:002010-05-27T11:59:51.870-05:00Tim,
Thanks for all of your responses. We are not...Tim,<br /><br />Thanks for all of your responses. We are not that far apart.<br /><br />Really, David Brumbelow's point touches upon my greatest concern about the whole thing. I'm 100% in agreement with his concern. It just hasn't risen for me to the point that I would cast a negative vote.<br /><br />Regarding your final point about the trustee system, I would simply acknowledge thatBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-3353852317946710842010-05-27T11:58:06.193-05:002010-05-27T11:58:06.193-05:00Cont.
Like you, I do not make this a matter of di...Cont.<br /><br /><i>Like you, I do not make this a matter of division. I love you as a brother and appreciate your ministry. I've arranged for the shower in your hotel room to malfunction and for the hotel shuttle not to run for you on the day of the vote.<br /><br />That's how we've been doing politics in Texas since the days of LBJ. :-)</i><br /><br />As to the hotel room Tim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-69332646965317378842010-05-27T11:47:53.445-05:002010-05-27T11:47:53.445-05:00Cont.
I am not represented at all in the governan...Cont.<br /><br /><i>I am not represented at all in the governance of the DCBC or the BGCT or, for that matter, North Carolina.</i><br /><br />You are the historian and I will concede to your point on this one. But, isn't that why we call it COOPERATIVE giving? While I know my funds given through the state convention goes to the national convention I also know that my funds on the national Tim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-12096812060450066002010-05-27T11:43:48.888-05:002010-05-27T11:43:48.888-05:00Cont.
4. Tim, my brother, it seems to me that you...Cont.<br /><br /><i>4. Tim, my brother, it seems to me that you are the one who has failed to think the matter through with regard to your Tarrant Baptist Association example...</i><br /><br />I am not sure if I was a clear as I wanted to be concerning the TBA. What I was trying to point out is that a church that is dually aligned can give to the TBA and to BGCT and receive credit as GCG. I canTim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-23610759646313233562010-05-27T11:33:49.874-05:002010-05-27T11:33:49.874-05:00Brother Bart,
3. It is not that SBC churches coul...Brother Bart,<br /><br /><i>3. It is not that SBC churches could not or should not occasionally give outside SBC endeavors, it is simply that it is none of the SBC's business, as I see it, to track such things. What compelling reason is there for the SBC to keep a record of it?</i><br /><br />I can agree with you that it is not the business of the SBC what missions I lead my church to supportTim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-30411645393259929442010-05-27T11:26:11.219-05:002010-05-27T11:26:11.219-05:00Brother Bart,
We are writing such lengthy stateme...Brother Bart,<br /><br />We are writing such lengthy statements I am going to try and deal with my responses in individual posts.<br /><br /><i>Furthermore, we ALREADY track and celebrate designated giving outside of CP, as we will afterwards if this recommendation passes.</i> I honestly believe this is the strongest point for the GCG. As a matter of fact it is this point that makes me almost Tim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-1217829230055859262010-05-27T11:20:24.391-05:002010-05-27T11:20:24.391-05:005. Finally, the circumstance that you described is...5. Finally, the circumstance that you described is not any violation of local church autonomy. You've suggested that lily-livered pastors will vote contrary to their consciences and will give contrary to wisdom not because they have no choice (for the exact thing that you wish for them to do...to vote NO and to give through CP...will be one of the choices freely provided to them by the Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-74642084849132131782010-05-27T11:14:58.594-05:002010-05-27T11:14:58.594-05:00Brother Bart,
Lifeway can stand ready to do somet...Brother Bart,<br /><br /><i>Lifeway can stand ready to do something and yet still be waiting for word from the EC before doing anything.</i><br /><br />(I am using italics for quotes as my last comments did not allow my "blockquote" tags.)<br /><br />I agree completely with that statement, but Dr. Floyd needs to state that Lifeway is "standing ready". Dr. Floyd says; <i>If Tim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-56686840131215876662010-05-27T11:12:47.349-05:002010-05-27T11:12:47.349-05:004. Tim, my brother, it seems to me that you are th...4. Tim, my brother, it seems to me that you are the one who has failed to think the matter through with regard to your Tarrant Baptist Association example...<br /><br />a. A church in TBA is ALREADY able to list its contributions to TBA on the Annual Church Profile. We list our contributions to our association on our ACP every year. I'm looking at your church's ACP, and I see that you Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-6087643254899236082010-05-27T10:57:13.917-05:002010-05-27T10:57:13.917-05:00Tim,
My responses:
1. Lifeway can stand ready to...Tim,<br /><br />My responses:<br /><br />1. Lifeway can stand ready to do something and yet still be waiting for word from the EC before doing anything.<br /><br />2. Great Commission Giving does not redefine or restructure Cooperative Program giving. What qualifies as CP giving today will qualify as CP giving afterwards if this recommendation passes. No more and no less. Furthermore, we ALREADY Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-80166219422863711462010-05-27T10:46:20.656-05:002010-05-27T10:46:20.656-05:00Dave,
Thanks.Dave,<br /><br />Thanks.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.com