tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post2100837241362616424..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: Do Americans Regard Children as a Blessing?Bart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-55196354937634501592008-10-25T14:45:00.001-05:002008-10-25T14:45:00.001-05:00I don't know how widespread it is, but evidence of...I don't know how widespread it is, but evidence of the growth of the "childfree" movement can be seen at online sites like childfree.com and the "No Kidding" adult social club.<BR/><BR/>"Childfree" and "childless-by-choice" are chosen terms for this mindset -- to denote people who have made a "childfree" choice rather than simply being childless. Some people who are childless do not have childrenR. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-51291257758714789202008-10-25T14:45:00.000-05:002008-10-25T14:45:00.000-05:00I don't know how widespread it is, but evidence of...I don't know how widespread it is, but evidence of the growth of the "childfree" movement can be seen at online sites like childfree.com and the "No Kidding" adult social club.<BR/><BR/>"Childfree" and "childless-by-choice" are chosen terms for this mindset -- to denote people who have made a "childfree" choice rather than simply being childless. Some people who are childless do not have childrenR. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-10877431966282774932008-10-25T09:45:00.000-05:002008-10-25T09:45:00.000-05:00Brother Bart,A few disclaimers:1. Our family has r...Brother Bart,<BR/><BR/>A few disclaimers:<BR/><BR/>1. Our family has refused to use any form of birth control that prevents implantation since we were educated on the topic several years ago.<BR/>2. We love large families and plan on adding to our two children (and are even considering adopting).<BR/>3. Having been to some of the most poverty-stricken areas of the world, I am not hesitant at all Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-66260326441137208492008-10-24T22:29:00.000-05:002008-10-24T22:29:00.000-05:00R. L. Vaughn...a man who actually read the origina...R. L. Vaughn...a man who actually read the original post. Thank you, my brother!<BR/><BR/>For the rest of you, I'm back online. But I see more of you talking among yourselves than anyone talking to me. Dwight, you had an open question to me, but it seems to me either that Peter and Ron P have already answered it to my satisfaction, or I have already addressed it in my earlier discussion with BillBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-86108756501888268042008-10-24T17:22:00.000-05:002008-10-24T17:22:00.000-05:00Speaking generically, but not for all Americans, I...Speaking generically, but not for all Americans, I think regarding your topic question -- there is a strong American current that regards children as an interference rather than a blessing.R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-67158147531708132332008-10-24T08:08:00.000-05:002008-10-24T08:08:00.000-05:00Bart's original post didn't mention Wade. I do wis...Bart's original post didn't mention Wade. I do wish we could have discussed this issue without invoking him all the time.<BR/><BR/>I listened to the whole sermon and read Dr. White's clarification. I appreciate him taking the time to do this. I am glad he doesn't believe all birth control is murder. I think he could have been clearer but as Peter said, we all say things in sermons that we couldBillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04864810365424064220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-24246490023147523412008-10-23T23:40:00.000-05:002008-10-23T23:40:00.000-05:00This really has nothing to do with this controvers...This really has nothing to do with this controversy; I frankly don't want to get involved in that.<BR/><BR/>But does anyone else have a problem with Richard Land speaking for the entire SBC? Who appointed him spokesman, and who gave him his talking points?<BR/><BR/>I don't have a problem with him giving his opinion, or speaking for the ELRC. But to say, "The Southern Baptist Convention believes"?Wade Phillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01797870793178905326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-90013415628139290242008-10-23T23:03:00.000-05:002008-10-23T23:03:00.000-05:00Bart,Apologies for double posting. But I just went...Bart,<BR/><BR/>Apologies for double posting. But I just went over to <A HREF="http://sbctoday.com/2008/10/23/thomas-white-a-written-clarification-on-birth-control/" REL="nofollow"> SBC Today</A> where Dr. White has clarified his statements.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/><BR/>Ron P.Ron Phillips, Sr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15891614423106717280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-9613169625180370792008-10-23T22:51:00.000-05:002008-10-23T22:51:00.000-05:00Dwight,I sincerely hope that you are doing well. T...Dwight,<BR/><BR/>I sincerely hope that you are doing well. Thank you for your response. Let me see if I can address your issues.<BR/><BR/>Peter gave an excellent synopsis of Dr. White's <B>entire</B> message, which clearly has been taken completely out of context from the whole of his message that God is God, we are not. I am curious as to how much of his message did you actually listen to. Did Ron Phillips, Sr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15891614423106717280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-2917877441210063842008-10-23T22:45:00.000-05:002008-10-23T22:45:00.000-05:00Bob,The conclusion you draw "The reference was cle...Bob,<BR/><BR/>The conclusion you draw "The reference was clear, that planning when to have kids is a sin." simply does not follow from Dr. White's premise: "we're sinning when we say "I'm going to control every single aspect of my life .." <BR/><BR/>In both cases you completely ignore Dr. White's stated theme and its repeated application--God cannot be left out of any part or sphere of our peter lumpkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00515936082186368659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-24866378385227664102008-10-23T20:43:00.000-05:002008-10-23T20:43:00.000-05:00According to WFAA today, Richard Land issued this...According to <A HREF="www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa081022_mo_sbc.13d0d9a1f.html" REL="nofollow"> WFAA</A> today, Richard Land issued this statement.<BR/><BR/>"The Southern Baptist Convention is not opposed to the use of birth control within marriage as long as the methods used do not cause the fertilized egg to abort and as long as the methods used do not bar having Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-16123032549335317262008-10-23T19:28:00.000-05:002008-10-23T19:28:00.000-05:00Bart,I got a pretty clear message from Dr. White's...Bart,<BR/><BR/>I got a pretty clear message from Dr. White's statement that indicates "..we're sinning when we say "I'm going to control every single aspect of my life .. "", as a follow-on statement that he and his wife felt compelled to stop using birth control methods. The reference was clear, that planning when to have kids is a sin. That seems not to apply to one particular method, either.<Bob Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06110395869562328309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-64406860571307125532008-10-23T18:16:00.000-05:002008-10-23T18:16:00.000-05:00Bill,Thanks for the response. I think, however, a...Bill,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the response. I think, however, about the some of it is "I still disagree." And, that's fine.<BR/><BR/>As for your comment about my duel with Wade, I'm unsure whatever you mean. It sounds like you thought I was simply regurgitating my exchange with him. I was not. What I was doing, I suppose, is assuring you that your moral distinction is not at all unique to this peter lumpkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00515936082186368659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-74441731828788115752008-10-23T18:15:00.000-05:002008-10-23T18:15:00.000-05:00Ron P,It was not my desire or intention (I assume ...Ron P,<BR/><BR/>It was not my desire or intention (I assume the same would be true for Bro. Wade) to show where Dr. White’s exegesis of the text is in error or faulty. Ron P., if you accept Dr.White’s exposition of Psalms 127 as “exegetical reasoning,” to support the view that taking birth control pills is “sinful,” “wrong” “murder” and rebellion against God, be my guest. However, please Dwighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083010733573629841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-48481252456522799982008-10-23T18:09:00.000-05:002008-10-23T18:09:00.000-05:00Dwight,It's been much too long, my brother. I am ...Dwight,<BR/><BR/>It's been much too long, my brother. <BR/><BR/>I am be missing something, but as I read your last comment I must ask some questions, if I may.<BR/><BR/>In your first assertion, you mention the "burden of proof" is on all "supporting the view" that "taking birth control pills designed to prevent conception would be murder." I agree. Who has argued such? <BR/><BR/>Secondly, peter lumpkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00515936082186368659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-29539586092998635872008-10-23T18:08:00.000-05:002008-10-23T18:08:00.000-05:00Peter: As fascinating as your blogwar with Wade B...Peter: As fascinating as your blogwar with Wade Burleson is, I'm not willing to address it here. I followed the link to the video of Dr. White's message (and my starting point) from a non-SBC related blog.<BR/><BR/>My "conclusion" about Dr. White being partially incorrect, is just that. He is partially incorrect. That's why I wrote it.<BR/><BR/>I believe you are incorrect when you say that Dr. Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04864810365424064220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-86291749454786133922008-10-23T17:30:00.000-05:002008-10-23T17:30:00.000-05:00I would be in favor of Jerry Rankin looking for a ...I would be in favor of Jerry Rankin looking for a new job.<BR/><BR/>As to his speaking in chapel I would not care one bit. That would be fine.<BR/><BR/>cbCB Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230652312241919771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-81769805805148878902008-10-23T17:20:00.000-05:002008-10-23T17:20:00.000-05:00Dwight,I'm on the way out to Chuck E Cheese to enj...Dwight,<BR/><BR/>I'm on the way out to Chuck E Cheese to enjoy the blessing of the children whom we have adopted, so I do not have the time at present to address your first questions.<BR/><BR/>But I am more than willing to give a brief reply to your question for David Worley. I am more than happy to admit that my response to Jerry Rankin would be quite similar to your response to Thomas White.<BRBart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-54550350690009648082008-10-23T17:16:00.000-05:002008-10-23T17:16:00.000-05:00David Worley and Bart,I do consider you a BI guy. ...David Worley and Bart,<BR/><BR/><BR/>I do consider you a BI guy. If Dr. White had distinguished between his personal opinion and convictions from the perception that he was proclaiming biblical truth, I would have no problem with his message. However, to label Christians with a different viewpoint or practice as rebelling against God, engaging in sin or murder goes far beyond expressing a Dwighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083010733573629841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-2037943280613693922008-10-23T17:13:00.000-05:002008-10-23T17:13:00.000-05:00Bill,If I may, first, starting after half a messag...Bill,<BR/><BR/>If I may, first, starting after half a message has been preached hardly qualifies as "listen[ing] to the message with what I hope is an unbiased ear." How do you know Dr. White did not make biblically significant contributions rooted in the text itself during the first 20 minutes that substantially grounded the points he made in the latter 18+ minutes? This will haunt you later peter lumpkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00515936082186368659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-69090855617460679212008-10-23T17:09:00.000-05:002008-10-23T17:09:00.000-05:00The burden of proof is on Dr. White, you and all t...The burden of proof is on Dr. White, you and all those supporting the view that taking birth control pills designed to prevent conception would be “murder,” “sinful” “wrong” and a “biblical worldview.” Moreover, the necessity here is for you and supporters of Dr.White’s belief to provide the biblical basis or proof text for those viewpoints. <BR/><BR/>To answer your question specifically, I do Dwighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12083010733573629841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-84740859298842190262008-10-23T16:14:00.000-05:002008-10-23T16:14:00.000-05:00I am so glad to see so many of you so very concern...I am so glad to see so many of you so very concerned about the welfare of children.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, I wait with great anticipation knowing that several homeless children will soon be welcomed into you homes and you will begin parenting them in the admonition of the Lord.<BR/><BR/>cbCB Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02230652312241919771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-58057233217544221182008-10-23T14:30:00.000-05:002008-10-23T14:30:00.000-05:00Bart,Thank you for posting this. In the three blog...Bart,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for posting this. In the three blogs that I have read regarding Dr. White's message (including this one) and the news story on WFAA TV, the following is very clear:<BR/><BR/>No one has shown that Dr. White's exegesis of the text is in error or faulty. Coming from the media, that does not matter. Coming from two pastors who publicly ridiculed and roasted Dr. White, I wouldRon Phillips, Sr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15891614423106717280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-17758593605470401682008-10-23T14:21:00.000-05:002008-10-23T14:21:00.000-05:00By the way I agree with Bill'sf( I believe it was ...By the way I agree with Bill'sf( I believe it was Bill) interpretation of Genesis 1:28 as do other theologians.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-62320806392842998722008-10-23T14:14:00.000-05:002008-10-23T14:14:00.000-05:00Bart: I do not interpret the verses you gave as yo...Bart: I do not interpret the verses you gave as you do. It's not fair to either the mother or the child to just say keep going until you can no longer have children if that is not what the mother or father wants. It also says in the Bible when I grow faint and weary that my strength is in the Lord, but that does not mean that I just keep going until there is no more of me left. This is another Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com