tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post371908113309884835..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: John Gill and Duty-Faith: Clarifying a Prominent QuoteBart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger112125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-90791947868861302162013-08-29T06:29:14.666-05:002013-08-29T06:29:14.666-05:00DOES GOD ARBITRARILY BESTOW FAITH?
Many believe t...DOES GOD ARBITRARILY BESTOW FAITH?<br /><br />Many believe that Ephesians 2:8 teaches that God arbitrarily bestows faith on a selected few so they can believe and be saved. Nothing could be farther from the truth.<br /><br />Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.(NKJV)<br /><br />Salvation is the gift of God, not faith. TheSteve Finnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12863026367048527526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-69550758116704258732007-11-19T08:47:00.000-06:002007-11-19T08:47:00.000-06:00Interesting discussion!FYI: http://johngillstudy.w...Interesting discussion!<BR/><BR/>FYI: http://johngillstudy.wordpress.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-18329115298905438242007-04-05T20:12:00.000-05:002007-04-05T20:12:00.000-05:00Bart:Do you believe that God the Father had an ete...Bart:<BR/><BR/>Do you believe that God the Father had an eternal flock of sheep, whom alone He has predestined to become Christians, while passing by the rest, just like the Levite and Priest similarly "passed by" the wounded man on the side of the Jericho road?Richard Coordshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05600859155973820653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-87737722970752308322007-04-05T20:08:00.000-05:002007-04-05T20:08:00.000-05:00Bart:You wrote: "Unfortunately, Arminianism fails ...Bart:<BR/><BR/>You wrote: "Unfortunately, Arminianism fails to take election seriously, understates the reality of depravity (IMHO), and has served as a Petri dish for some of the most abominable of Christian heresies."<BR/><BR/>1) Have you ever heard the Arminian teaching on Election? If so, please describe to me your understanding of Arminian election. (Adrian Rogers IMO does an excellent job Richard Coordshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05600859155973820653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-33234171814671449312007-04-05T19:56:00.000-05:002007-04-05T19:56:00.000-05:00SelahV,I'd like to see Peter also take up the topi...SelahV,<BR/><BR/>I'd like to see Peter also take up the topic of Alter Calls, especially from its historical perspective.Richard Coordshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05600859155973820653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-52277172970044675752007-04-03T23:10:00.000-05:002007-04-03T23:10:00.000-05:00EXAMININGCALVINISM: Thanks for your gracious res...EXAMININGCALVINISM: Thanks for your gracious response. Sometimes a little explanation of clarity goes a long way in the sterility of Blogland. While I agree that anything that lines up with satanic rationale is suspect, I'd have to understand why people do what they do, and why they eliminate or add various things to their church policies in order to make any judgement on the subject. I've Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-70323612771508315762007-04-03T20:17:00.000-05:002007-04-03T20:17:00.000-05:00SelahV,Thanks for pointing that out. By no means d...SelahV,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for pointing that out. By no means did I intend to convey the meaning that Christian Calvinists are satanic. Rather, I feel that the <I>policy</I> of opposing Alter Calls is satanic because Satan hates seeing the lost become saved. Therefore, anything that lines up with the will of Satan is satanic.<BR/><BR/>I attended a Calvinist church that wouldn't have an "Alter Call" Richard Coordshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05600859155973820653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-78297427978788616982007-04-03T00:53:00.000-05:002007-04-03T00:53:00.000-05:00ExaminingCalvinism: whoa. "satanic?" I would say...ExaminingCalvinism: whoa. "satanic?" I would say that is a very potent word to describe people who find it unnecessary to have an altar call. Can you tell me where is the scriptural basis for alter calls? Does John Gill have anything to say about alter calls? While I am a wholehearted supporter of alter calls, I'm not a proponent of long excessive drawn out coercive alter calls--in which a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-8433103854662743532007-04-02T19:20:00.000-05:002007-04-02T19:20:00.000-05:00To SelahV:You wrote: "I really got the impression ...To SelahV:<BR/><BR/>You wrote: "I really got the impression that Calvinists did believe folks didn't need to be preached to. In fact, as I understand the reformed church, they don't see any need of altar calls either as in reaching lost people."<BR/><BR/>I certainly can see how the common Calvinistic policy of opposing "Alter Calls" would give the <I>impression</I> of being Anti-Evangelistic. In Richard Coordshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05600859155973820653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-60154816137089022922007-03-31T23:03:00.000-05:002007-03-31T23:03:00.000-05:00Dr. Yarnell, a friend emailed me a comment you mad...Dr. Yarnell, a friend emailed me a comment you made regarding a straw man on another blog. I've written a post about a straw man and wonder if you could share your expertise on the subject with me. since you have no website, I suppose, I ask you to visit my space for a spell whenever you get a chance. No hurry. I've written another post since the Straw Man. But you can find it if you scroll Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-10726378116017798282007-03-30T09:00:00.000-05:002007-03-30T09:00:00.000-05:00Volfan: I understand exactly what you mean. I ju...Volfan: I understand exactly what you mean. I just didn't understand what another person meant. I suppose in the future when I ask a question, I should preface it with the fact that it is not a strawman. Lord, I hate that term. I'm gonna go write a blog about it. selahVAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-2532397094604742042007-03-30T08:08:00.000-05:002007-03-30T08:08:00.000-05:00I''ll confess I came late to the party cuz of what...I''ll confess I came late to the party cuz of what Debbie said on hers. But having been a studying presbyterian for some years, I can't just not say anything at all.<BR/><BR/>First, referring to leading people who are under a "sense of sin and guilt" ... we called that conviction ... I think we've all seen or suspected the results of leading someone in the "sinner's prayer" when there is no sign Bob Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06110395869562328309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-70293438551378051432007-03-30T07:36:00.000-05:002007-03-30T07:36:00.000-05:00selah,you may use a straw man any time you like. ...selah,<BR/><BR/>you may use a straw man any time you like. its a-ok with me. besides, if you will scroll up you will see that i am argueing for using straw men in trying to prove a point.<BR/><BR/>davidvolfan007https://www.blogger.com/profile/15635929001030697924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-5683202366080590072007-03-29T21:07:00.000-05:002007-03-29T21:07:00.000-05:00Volfan: so any time a person uses a metaphor, anal...Volfan: so any time a person uses a metaphor, analogy, or illustration to better communicate, THAT is a strawman? Lord, I'm toast! Opps...is toast a strawman? selahV :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-35979660781488443142007-03-29T20:54:00.000-05:002007-03-29T20:54:00.000-05:00Debbie: And how to acknowledge someone is not to ...Debbie: And how to acknowledge someone is not to be rude to them. I was speaking with Allen regarding to Carey. If you don't like what I have to say, then you don't have to read my comments.<BR/>As to the "strawman" comment...I have no idea what you are talking about. My purpose was simply to ask a question. You have chosen to answer my question to Allen with your normal Debbie style. I Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-78468299241077138302007-03-29T20:47:00.000-05:002007-03-29T20:47:00.000-05:00Debbie: You wrote: "Selah: I try to ignore you an...Debbie: You wrote: "Selah: I try to ignore you and you keep going down the path of strawman arguments. What is your purpose? No, Carey's 7 years was not due to his theology. I believe it was due to God's timing. We plant the seed according to Paul, it's God that does the growing. Now back to ignoring."<BR/>Here's how you ignore someone:Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-72537393534636995212007-03-29T18:26:00.000-05:002007-03-29T18:26:00.000-05:00You said: What you have said of Gill could equally...You said: What you have said of Gill could equally be said of Hussey, Skepp, Brine, etc.<BR/><BR/><BR/>You are simply doing a guilt by association. He was with them, he was not one of them.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-20424407140328227082007-03-29T18:09:00.000-05:002007-03-29T18:09:00.000-05:00Bart said: "But he did not believe that it was the...Bart said: "But he did not believe that it was the duty of the non-elect to believe savingly upon Christ"<BR/><BR/>What more proof do you need that this statement is simply not true. I cannot for the life of me understand where you come to this conclusion having been shown and ignoring completely all that I have given. Whether you acknowledge it or not, this simply is not true. I believe that Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-55492912619609792042007-03-29T17:19:00.000-05:002007-03-29T17:19:00.000-05:00From what I had understood, every church(not every...From what I had understood, every church(not every person in the churches, that would be an overstatement) fell to this except the Particular Baptists. The information I have could be wrong. I am trying hard to keep things accurate.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-42989894191725552032007-03-29T17:17:00.000-05:002007-03-29T17:17:00.000-05:00You said: What you have said of Gill could equally...You said: What you have said of Gill could equally be said of Hussey, Skepp, Brine, etc.<BR/><BR/>I say: True. Point well taken. I do know Gill fought as hard against these heresies as CH Spurgeon fought against Arminianism and Hyper-Calvinism.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-91358754270233533852007-03-29T17:15:00.000-05:002007-03-29T17:15:00.000-05:00I would disagree with the statement that Gill did ...I would disagree with the statement that Gill did not believe that all should are to repent and believe. Calvinism teaches that the elect are to come to Christ. There are those who do not hear the call Bart. That is Calvinism. They go to hell because they are sinners. Gill said this in "The Cause of God" All men are naturally bound to repent, because they have naturally broken the law." Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-38240102774944435252007-03-29T16:55:00.000-05:002007-03-29T16:55:00.000-05:00Did John Gill believe in duty-faith? That is a dis...Did John Gill believe in duty-faith? That is a disputed question. I am willing to admit that it is a disputed question. Serious scholars disagree. The point of this post is to indicate two things: (1) That I believe the quote offered in this post not to be an affirmation of duty-faith. (2) That I have not seen any affirmation of duty-faith in Gill to counteract the areas where he denied it.<BR/><Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-70680679296831752232007-03-29T16:29:00.000-05:002007-03-29T16:29:00.000-05:00Bart: By seriously I meant I was asking seriously....Bart: By seriously I meant I was asking seriously. Sorry I did not make that clear. Your answer is correct. John Gill believed this as well. <BR/>You have to realize that every single church in England at the time of John Gill was delving into deism. The Particular Baptists of which John Gill was did not during that time period. John Gill's preaching was the reason why. They stayed true to the Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-3899767815571848472007-03-29T16:25:00.000-05:002007-03-29T16:25:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Debbie Kaufmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17748664558802779885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-87508463710838484242007-03-29T16:13:00.000-05:002007-03-29T16:13:00.000-05:00Debbie,I've been serious all along.Garden-variety ...Debbie,<BR/><BR/>I've been serious all along.<BR/><BR/>Garden-variety Calvinism teaches that it is the duty of all men to believe on Christ for salvation. However, it is not within the ability of any person to believe savingly upon Christ apart from the special grace that is accorded to the elect. Thus, those who are not elect will be guilty of failing to live up to their duty to believe, and Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.com