tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post6267848737826346181..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: On Being EvangelicalBart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-83721899669034046762007-05-10T12:45:00.000-05:002007-05-10T12:45:00.000-05:00Bart,If I came out of a Catholic background, and i...Bart,<BR/><BR/>If I came out of a Catholic background, and in my new "protestant faith" encountered:<BR/><BR/>1. Insipid and self-centered "evangelical" worship services that, while often very large, are basically devoid of history, tradition, or awe...and<BR/><BR/>2. Three years of incessant personal attacks from lifelong "traditional" Baptists with liberal positions on scripture and moral Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-92062520232415594682007-05-09T15:19:00.000-05:002007-05-09T15:19:00.000-05:00R.L.,Thanks for your clarification as well.As I un...R.L.,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your clarification as well.<BR/><BR/>As I understand it, the Bible has some pretty straightforward things to say about the unity of the Body of Christ.<BR/><BR/>It doesn't say anything directly, though, as I understand it, about either the unity of the Baptists, or the unity of the Evangelicals.<BR/><BR/>I must ask myself, which concept comes closest to the biblical David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-67988382137378596242007-05-09T10:52:00.000-05:002007-05-09T10:52:00.000-05:00David, thanks for the explanations. Sorry if that ...David, thanks for the explanations. Sorry if that came across like I was grilling you for a technical definition of "evangelical". Just mainly looking for what kind of concept you were using concerning the basic truths of the gospel -- for example, did the Calvinism/Arminianism issue of soteriology come into play, etc. But I believe I now have a good idea of what you mean. Certainly there are R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-18348217865546947012007-05-09T06:45:00.000-05:002007-05-09T06:45:00.000-05:00R.L. Vaughan,I am not proposing a technical defint...R.L. Vaughan,<BR/><BR/>I am not proposing a technical defintion of these terms. No telling how many different "declarations of faith" or "creeds" have already been written trying to codify the "basic truths of the gospel," some more detailed and others less so. In general, I am fairly happy with, for instance, the <A HREF="http://www.worldevangelicalalliance.com/wea/statement.htm" REL="nofollow">David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-27749613983146462652007-05-08T17:48:00.000-05:002007-05-08T17:48:00.000-05:00David Rogers wrote, "...'evangelical' is someone, ...David Rogers wrote, "...'evangelical' is someone, or some group, that believes and embraces the basic truths of the gospel (evangel)..." and later "...a 'Baptist' is someone who belongs to one of several specific denominational groups that embrace the practice of believer's baptism by immersion." Then, "Among these, there are some that don't embrace what I consider to be the basic truths of the R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-12106692630212674262007-05-08T12:00:00.000-05:002007-05-08T12:00:00.000-05:00Bart,Would you at least agree with me that there a...Bart,<BR/><BR/>Would you at least agree with me that there are some Evangelicals who are Baptists and some who are not, and there are some Baptists who are Evangelicals and some who are not?David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-76959977758839757602007-05-08T11:28:00.000-05:002007-05-08T11:28:00.000-05:00Unfortunately, as Beckwith's situation illustrates...Unfortunately, as Beckwith's situation illustrates, late-twentieth-century (early-twenty-first-century?) Evangelicalism is a different critter altogether.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-62678199787675157932007-05-08T11:27:00.000-05:002007-05-08T11:27:00.000-05:00David,It might surprise you to learn that I regula...David,<BR/><BR/>It might surprise you to learn that I regularly employ the word <I>Evangelical</I> as a part of the definition of being <I>Baptist</I>. But I go back to the use of the word as applied to the transcontinental revival movement of the eighteenth century (of which the First Great Awakening was a portion).Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-75629606353696283862007-05-08T11:24:00.000-05:002007-05-08T11:24:00.000-05:00Bart,As far as I am concerned, language and termin...Bart,<BR/><BR/>As far as I am concerned, language and terminology get in the way of understanding way too much. For instance, I get the idea that both the terms "evangelical" and "Baptist" mean something different for you than to me. Yet, I think at the same time, we both probably understand what each other means when we use each of those terms. <BR/><BR/>For me, "evangelical" is someone, or someDavid Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-76335446023845781432007-05-08T09:54:00.000-05:002007-05-08T09:54:00.000-05:00Greg,With regard to your insinuation, I can only s...Greg,<BR/><BR/>With regard to your insinuation, I can only say, "Nyet, Nyet"Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-6624451895588978562007-05-07T23:00:00.000-05:002007-05-07T23:00:00.000-05:00I smell another scandal coming for the SBC. I bet ...I smell another scandal coming for the SBC. I bet if Ethics Daily looks hard enough, they'll find that this event has prompted Wiley Drake to launch a Baylor boycott and sign a declaration calling the pope "AntiChrist." I jest, of course. As knowledge increases, common sense so often decreases.<BR/><BR/>On another note, there may be greater forces at work here. I just had to enter the security Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-27460903931160441842007-05-07T22:17:00.000-05:002007-05-07T22:17:00.000-05:00David,I agree that the term "Baptist" is often mis...David,<BR/><BR/>I agree that the term "Baptist" is often misapplied, which is why I add in my fifth point that we need to help people to understand what the word means. Yet I know of nobody on the planet who believes that being Roman Catholic is compatible with being Baptist—even among those whose use of the term I find unsatisfactory.<BR/><BR/>Thus, weakened as it is by abuse, <I>Baptist</Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-11288718828958710122007-05-07T11:06:00.000-05:002007-05-07T11:06:00.000-05:00Bart,I thought you had agreed with me on the comme...Bart,<BR/><BR/>I thought you had agreed with me on the comment string on <A HREF="http://praisegodbarebones.blogspot.com/2007/04/martin-marty-on-evangelical-doctrinal.html" REL="nofollow">this post</A> that the use of the term "Baptist" can be just as problematic as the use of the term "evangelical."<BR/><BR/>I believe just as strongly as ever in practical trans-denominational unity among in the David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-33326287254967021432007-05-07T10:44:00.000-05:002007-05-07T10:44:00.000-05:00Aaron,Dr. Yarnell's words are (as usual) well utte...Aaron,<BR/><BR/>Dr. Yarnell's words are (as usual) well uttered.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-86287858741371870202007-05-07T09:17:00.000-05:002007-05-07T09:17:00.000-05:00Alan, I clarify further, not all of the somethings...Alan, <BR/><BR/>I clarify further, not all of the <I>somethings</I> are equally valid. I believe that all ought to be Baptist. Yet, I concede that one can be a firmly-convinced Presbyterian and stay there without ever wandering anywhere close to Roman Catholicism.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-55527808822259298092007-05-07T09:15:00.000-05:002007-05-07T09:15:00.000-05:00Alan,Wow! I'm thrilled that we're up to 80%! :-)Pe...Alan,<BR/><BR/>Wow! I'm thrilled that we're up to 80%! :-)<BR/><BR/>Perhaps we can get even closer if I clarify this: I am not saying that being a convinced Baptists is the only safeguard against theological drift. I'm saying that one ought to be a convinced <B>something</B>, rather than pretending that these theological questions of such gravity that have divided denominations are suddenly Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-5393644233940415892007-05-06T22:07:00.000-05:002007-05-06T22:07:00.000-05:00Anonymous, thanks for the information about Beckwi...Anonymous, thanks for the information about Beckwith's affiliation. I'll not venture further into Baptist & Catholic differences of church/state relations for it probably leads away from the main point of Bart's post (which is more about the teflon nature of being <I>evangelical</I>).R. L. Vaughnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10992710377193518029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-8612993245850575572007-05-06T22:04:00.000-05:002007-05-06T22:04:00.000-05:00Bart,At one point Wade Burleson listed Dr. B on hi...Bart,<BR/><BR/>At one point Wade Burleson listed Dr. B on his blogroll. No longer there, I noticed.<BR/><BR/>A few "names" have weighed in on Dr. B's blog. I see Malcolm Yarnell's name listed. He wrote..<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Dear Frank,<BR/><BR/>Considering the tendency of evangelical ecumenism to lead to Catholicism, your conversion to Rome is not an entirely unexpected development. However, itBig Daddy Weavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06270791070315400815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-63094336447824037442007-05-06T21:56:00.000-05:002007-05-06T21:56:00.000-05:00I agreed with your post until point 5. You made a ...I agreed with your post until point 5. You made a huge leap in your logic there that is not necessarily warranted. Again, it sounds like we had better be REALLY Baptist, or we're going to slide into apostacy. Sigh. <BR/><BR/>It is obvious that Beckwith has no idea what it means to be evangelical either. Just because some people are ignorant or have forgotten what things are supposed to mean does Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-92157191372885844152007-05-06T21:23:00.000-05:002007-05-06T21:23:00.000-05:00bart,uh oh....you and steve better watch out!david...bart,<BR/><BR/>uh oh....you and steve better watch out!<BR/><BR/>david.....volfan007Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-82349911670540204352007-05-06T20:04:00.000-05:002007-05-06T20:04:00.000-05:00well said... let's see what others say :)well said... let's see what others say :)Groseys messageshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09256060632754175527noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-56138925472099501952007-05-06T19:53:00.000-05:002007-05-06T19:53:00.000-05:00Steve,I'm not even going to ask whether you actual...Steve,<BR/><BR/>I'm not even going to ask whether you actually meant to write "CBFers will" or whether you intended to communicate "CBFer swill"<BR/><BR/>:-)Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-62303758114809193802007-05-06T19:52:00.000-05:002007-05-06T19:52:00.000-05:00Anonymous,Certainly people are capable of holding ...Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>Certainly people are capable of holding any number of mutually contradictory ideas at any one time. I do not underestimate the human capacity for inconsistency.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-40221292344039872542007-05-06T19:51:00.000-05:002007-05-06T19:51:00.000-05:00R. L.,As usual, you make a strong case.R. L.,<BR/><BR/>As usual, you make a strong case.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-68645980206433610112007-05-06T17:48:00.000-05:002007-05-06T17:48:00.000-05:00wow.. well CBFer swill be proud.wow.. well CBFer swill be proud.Groseys messageshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09256060632754175527noreply@blogger.com