tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post7384366849074203448..comments2023-10-19T10:34:33.030-05:00Comments on Praisegod Barebones: A Perplexing Review of The CamelBart Barberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-4086414666393270422008-01-19T12:08:00.000-06:002008-01-19T12:08:00.000-06:00From the Middle East,I just now got around to read...From the Middle East,<BR/><BR/>I just now got around to reading this post and the comment thread. Also, the other posts on this blog and threads where you have commented in the past.<BR/><BR/>I must say up front that I have not yet read "The Camel Method" in its entirety, so I do not consider myself to be qualified to give an informed opinion on the subject. I do have a copy, and hope to get David Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11701934251748260267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-71136497114305585512008-01-18T12:55:00.000-06:002008-01-18T12:55:00.000-06:00FTME,Have a great journey,....!Blessings,ChrisFTME,<BR/><BR/>Have a great journey,....!<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>ChrisChris Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09477874901216715726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-61870866810578744212008-01-18T08:10:00.000-06:002008-01-18T08:10:00.000-06:00Looks like this thread is no longer active. Just i...Looks like this thread is no longer active. Just in case... I'll be out of pocket for a couple of weeks. But will check back in when I can.<BR/><BR/>May the Spirit lead us all,<BR/>From the Middle EastAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-1121926911114490262008-01-14T22:35:00.000-06:002008-01-14T22:35:00.000-06:00From the Middle East,When you said……“This is all I...From the Middle East,<BR/><BR/>When you said……<BR/><BR/>“This is all I'm saying. Without a doubt they misunderstand the nature of God and what He has done on their behalf (even though they were the ones who held the very oracles of God)... yet Paul acknowledges they are zealous for Him (not a false god). <BR/><BR/>We may be saying the same thing here or be much closer than it seems.”<BR/><BR/>I Chris Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09477874901216715726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-75584528830896326782008-01-14T20:46:00.000-06:002008-01-14T20:46:00.000-06:00Brother Chris,You said: think we are linked on tha...Brother Chris,<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/> think we are linked on that as well as that we can use what we know of a culture to help us navigate the waters. I do believe that the True Truth (trademarked by Tim) is really aggravating to anyone regardless of ethnicity because anyone that does not have the Spirit of God is hostile to God,… according to Paul.<BR/><BR/>Amen!<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/> I Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-60182562843401055912008-01-14T16:02:00.000-06:002008-01-14T16:02:00.000-06:00From the Middle East,I agree with you that the cul...From the Middle East,<BR/><BR/>I agree with you that the culture never defines the gospel and I don’t hear you contradicting that at all. So…I think we are linked on that as well as that we can use what we know of a culture to help us navigate the waters. I do believe that the True Truth (trademarked by Tim) is really aggravating to anyone regardless of ethnicity because anyone that does not Chris Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09477874901216715726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-57829524884860200672008-01-14T15:51:00.000-06:002008-01-14T15:51:00.000-06:00I am busy right now but will get back to this.Bles...I am busy right now but will get back to this.<BR/><BR/>Blessings,<BR/>TimTim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-74038400292530733772008-01-14T15:04:00.000-06:002008-01-14T15:04:00.000-06:00Chris,RE: worshipI understand what you are saying ...Chris,<BR/><BR/>RE: worship<BR/><BR/>I understand what you are saying about worship and certainly agree that true worship (in spirit & truth) is only through the blood of Jesus. What I am attempting to communicate is that he (Paul) was ATTEMPTING to serve & worship God... the One True God, yet his zeal was without knowledge. I would say that the object of the Hasidic Jew's worship is the One TrueAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-20744835059291337252008-01-14T11:11:00.000-06:002008-01-14T11:11:00.000-06:00From the Middle East,First of all….I am truly than...From the Middle East,<BR/><BR/>First of all….I am truly thankful that you are on the mission field….so please take any feeble feedback of mine in that light….<BR/><BR/>I agree that knowing your audience is an advantage….and I think that is the gist of Paul’s statements in 1 Corinthians 9. Yet as he understood the culture and the tradition, he did not use the culture and tradition as a bridge Chris Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09477874901216715726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-66127668052374756242008-01-14T10:34:00.000-06:002008-01-14T10:34:00.000-06:00I'm busy. I'll get back to this thread later.I'm busy. I'll get back to this thread later.Bart Barberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14021102240441576393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-25927523425044622482008-01-13T08:59:00.000-06:002008-01-13T08:59:00.000-06:00Wow.To those who keep asking, "do they call themse...Wow.<BR/>To those who keep asking, "do they call themselves Christian":<BR/>Have you EVER been in another culture long term? How many times does it have to be said that the word "Christian" as you define it, is NOT how everyone in the world defines it? <BR/><BR/>I know it's been said here several times! Can you not understand this?<BR/><BR/>Our context is more Buddhist and the word Christian to-obey-is-betterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17246672981883943898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-47986242202046087702008-01-13T07:03:00.000-06:002008-01-13T07:03:00.000-06:00From Texas,You said:How exactly do you present the...From Texas,<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/>How exactly do you present the Gospel, then, since you are spending so much time on your so-called "pre-evangelism method," which has nothing to do with the Gospel?<BR/><BR/>1. Depending upon the situation I use different passages from Scripture. However, in general, I usually proclaim the story of God’s interaction with humanity. Beginning in Genesis and going Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-84522785936446274732008-01-13T06:34:00.000-06:002008-01-13T06:34:00.000-06:00Brother Tim,You said:Do the MBB consider themselve...Brother Tim,<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/>Do the MBB consider themselves Christians? Or do they view that word as a western culture term and reject it?<BR/><BR/>One of the first tasks of the cross-cultural missionary is to learn the language of his/her target people group. The best way to do this is from people who grew up speaking this language as they will know what different words mean in the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-82357231911361050082008-01-13T06:20:00.000-06:002008-01-13T06:20:00.000-06:00You said:My statement appeals to the fact that the...You said:<BR/>My statement appeals to the fact that the Quran states; Jesus is holy; Jesus has power over life and death; Jesus knows the way to heaven. The statements are all truth but they are not True TRUTH. <BR/><BR/>With the true/True TRUTH categories that you (and Schaffer) are proposing, it seems like you are saying that there are some things that are true, some things that are false and Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-40636974015341606812008-01-13T05:27:00.000-06:002008-01-13T05:27:00.000-06:00From Texas says: "Why hide the truth that your "co...From Texas says: <BR/><BR/>"Why hide the truth that your "converts" refuse to be called Christian? Don't be ashamed, step into the light. If you decide to repent, I will come back and converse. If not, know that you have been called to the light and you alone are responsible for your response.<BR/> <BR/>So "From Texas" is calling out the MBB's to step forward ( Even though nobody stated they Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-3958683772864211532008-01-13T03:31:00.000-06:002008-01-13T03:31:00.000-06:00And so now we have brothers in Christ calling us i...And so now we have brothers in Christ calling us in to the light and repent for sometimes using a witnessing tool that they deem as heretical. At least this guy is consistent in his application. I have often wanted to post something that sounds like CB would say during this discussion over the last year or so, saying either step up and start calling for investigations and resignations or STAND Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-22534496081209869712008-01-12T18:25:00.000-06:002008-01-12T18:25:00.000-06:00From Texas, It would be helpful perhaps if you did...From Texas, <BR/>It would be helpful perhaps if you did some reading on contextualization and cross-cultural evangelism. Perhaps you could spend some time in another culture to gain a better perspective on what others are trying to explain to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-65607153914175868352008-01-12T16:17:00.000-06:002008-01-12T16:17:00.000-06:00From the Middle East,I will preach tomorrow, from ...From the Middle East,<BR/><BR/>I will preach tomorrow, from the Word of God, and I plan on using the very words of Scripture, rather than making them up on my own, referring to the Greek and preaching in English. <BR/><BR/>It makes one wonder. If the Camel method is not an evangelism method, then why are you so passionate about using it and defending it? Your use of offensive rhetoric indicates Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-79888394819339731902008-01-12T15:48:00.000-06:002008-01-12T15:48:00.000-06:00Tim,I was about to respond to your comment, but ha...Tim,<BR/><BR/>I was about to respond to your comment, but have to run. More to come...<BR/><BR/>from the Middle EastAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-72628807814236095182008-01-12T15:46:00.000-06:002008-01-12T15:46:00.000-06:00From Texas,One more time:One, the Camel Method is ...From Texas,<BR/><BR/>One more time:<BR/><BR/>One, the Camel Method is NOT AN EVANGELISM METHOD. <BR/><BR/>It is a bridge to get to evangelism. The book is very clear on this. Have you read the book?<BR/><BR/>Warning, I rarely employ sarcasm as a rhetorical device, but feel it is called for at this point. Here goes...<BR/><BR/>As far as your concern that some would dare not use ONE OF THE TERMS Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-1832852396070296222008-01-12T15:42:00.000-06:002008-01-12T15:42:00.000-06:00Brother/Sister From the Middle East,Take your time...Brother/Sister From the Middle East,<BR/><BR/>Take your time, I know that ministry and family take precedence over blogging. <BR/><BR/>I will openly and honestly say that I do seem a bit confused and even frustrated over your lack of openness in stating that MBB's do not call themselves Christians. It is like we are defending the misuse of the term Christian, which is not a western euro culturalTim Rogershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02909751217844312917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-22127090765665553932008-01-12T15:07:00.000-06:002008-01-12T15:07:00.000-06:00Phil and Mary Ann,Whatever the reason, being asham...Phil and Mary Ann,<BR/><BR/>Whatever the reason, being ashamed of the name of Christ, and Christian means "little Christ", is a cause for judgment not salvation. Tim is troubled, as am I, by the fact that the Camel method is not about evangelism; the Camel method is not about proclaiming Christ as the only Lord and Savior; the Camel method is not about proclaiming Christ as the Second Person of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-53138934672001871062008-01-12T12:05:00.000-06:002008-01-12T12:05:00.000-06:00So are we leading people to repent of their sins a...So are we leading people to repent of their sins and accept Christ or ????? What about Lordship????<BR/><BR/>I just don't see this in the Camel approach nor from what I am reading. Am I missing something?Tim Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10885623376514366024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-14331208121934606842008-01-12T10:55:00.000-06:002008-01-12T10:55:00.000-06:00From Texas:Let me give you an example of what I me...From Texas:<BR/><BR/>Let me give you an example of what I mean. There are some countries where the only people allowed (legally) to drink alcohol are ethnic Christians. These ethnic Christians have persevered b/c they have not evangelized their surrounding culture. On top of that, information is pumped into a largely unsuspecting culture that states Christians are not moral people. <BR/><BR/>WhatPhil and Mary Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17358563103498431178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5643342666676162215.post-39319228873198481102008-01-12T10:42:00.000-06:002008-01-12T10:42:00.000-06:00Phil and Mary Ann,Thank you for stepping in.Doesn'...Phil and Mary Ann,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for stepping in.<BR/><BR/>Doesn't it strike you as strange that your MBBs are allowing "Christian," a biblical designation, to be defined by the host culture rather than by the Bible? If you allow Muslims to define "Christian," then most likely you are also allowing them to define, "God" (i.e. Allah) and "Jesus" (i.e. Isa). If so, these people are not callingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com