A person who grew up in this church recently attended another church in our metropolitan area. While he was there, one of the new friends that he made invited him to come to an event after church with several of the young singles there and serve as the designated driver.
I was just wondering why you need a designated driver to enjoy alcoholic beverages in moderation?
It would seem to me that every Christian should be able to agree that any recreational use of a substance that would result in your being unfit to drive a car would be a sin. But I would love to hear from those who celebrate the recreational use of intoxicants among Christians: Would you mind telling me how I as a pastor can know when a member of my flock is guilty of drunkenness? Or is that none of the pastor's business?
Abstentionists are not invited to participate in the thread. Only those who support the recreational use of intoxicants may post comments.
What defines 'drunkeness'?
ReplyDeleteThankfully, not an authority on this, but I define 'stupid' as any parents who permit their teenagers to attend a ring-dance or a prom without hiring a limosine.
When my youngest was a baby, his pediatrician's son was horribly injured on prom night . . . and alcohol and a hot sports car were the ingredients of a nearly-fatal accident.
Bart:
ReplyDeleteYou said:"Only those who support the recreational use of intoxicants may post comments."
My prediction you will get little to no comments with such a phrase as above.
Tom, I know how to use a loaded phrase as well as the next guy, but I don't see what you're saying in this case. I was only trying to be accurate.
ReplyDeleteI'm not opposed to the use of intoxicants like alcohol. Intoxicants are drugs. As medicines they are a blessing from the Lord. I'm merely opposed to their use recreationally.
There are others who are not opposed to the use of such substances recreationally.
Christiane, it certainly is foolish for any parent not to take seriously the severe dangers and needless devastation that alcohol brings to families every week.
ReplyDeleteBart:
ReplyDeleteYou said:"Or is that none of the pastor's business?"
My view is with the position you hold on alcohol if I was one of your church members I would not be discussing my use of alcohol with you.
BTW I am a nondrinker.
That's too bad, Tom. The folks in my congregation who have done so have beaten their alcoholism and have come into the best years of their lives.
ReplyDeleteAnd, Tom, at the conclusion of our conversation (and that's what this is), the total now is 0 of 1 responders willing to answer my question.
I qualify as a recreational consumer of alcoholic beverages--wine usually (2 glasses tonight), beer occasionally.
ReplyDeleteYes, drunkenness is a pastor's business as with any other sin in the local assembly.
A definition is more difficult because we have quantified a certain blood alcohol level as a limit. In scripture, it would be a pattern of conduct. I have in mind Proverbs 23:29-35. The person shows physical signs of substance abuse while seeking another drink.
Steve,
ReplyDeleteThanks for offering a serious, respectful answer. Looking at the passage that you cited, the following would be signs of drunkenness:
1. Hallucinations: "your eyes will see strange things, and your mind will utter perverse things."
2. Staggering and dizziness: "And you will be like one who lies down in the middle of the sea, or like one who lies down on the top of a mast."
3. Loss of memory/consciousness: "They struck me, but I did not become ill. They beat me, but I did not know it. When shall I awake?"
4. Continuation of drinking past this point: "I will seek another drink."
So, if one is hallucinating, staggering, and passing out, and yet continues to drink past this point, that person is guilty of drunkenness. Is that your position? If so, it would seem to correspond to a BAC of 0.18% or more. Is that a proper understanding of your position?
This is a great topic of discussion. I'm looking forward to Steve's follow up.
ReplyDeleteI was expecting a request for clarification.
ReplyDeleteIf someone was exhibiting the sings mentioned in that passage, I would say the person is drunk. At what BAC that happens, I do not know, nor am I aware if that percentage is consistent across individuals.
My inclination is that someone who is in the state describe has a history of alcohol abuse. I was not considering the one-time drunken state as Noah seems to be noted for after leaving the ark.
Since alcohol is useful for medicinal purposes (1 Tim 5:23), easing suffering (Prov 31:6), and gladdening the heart (Eccl 10:19; Zech 10:7), etc. the effects of wine have their purpose in our lives. The real issue is self-control as Paul mentions to all genders and age groups in Titus 2:1-6.
Steve,
ReplyDeleteAbout BAC and variation among people: My understanding is that people vary a good bit in how much alcohol it takes to reach a certain BAC, but not nearly so much in how they react to a certain BAC once they've reached it (however much or little it takes for that person to reach it). Once a certain percentage of the blood is alcohol, it's all biochemistry from there.
About habitual practice versus one-time event: It seems to me that the command in Ephesians 5:18 is one that would apply to a single-instance. Mεθύω simply means "to get drunk," not "to be a drunkard." Whether we're talking about Noah or Lot, the Bible illustrates in many occasions the evils and dangers of the one-time drinking binge.
As to what it is about wine that is a blessing, this seems to me to strike at the heart of the overall conversation ongoing in Christianity. Is it the recreational intoxicating property of wine that makes it a blessing, or something else? You have cited some Bible passages, and if I understand you correctly, you are doing so in order to suggest that mild intoxication is a blessing and only severe intoxication is a sin. Perhaps I read too much into your writing at this point, and if so, please correct me and much of what follows will become pointless and unimportant.
In two of these passages it seems difficult to me (or at least certainly a disputed matter) to make them positive endorsements. Ecclesiastes 10:19 goes on to say that "money is the answer to everything" immediately after it says that "wine makes life merry." The passage is a contrast between the lad-king and the noble king. Do you believe that money is really the answer to everything, or do you take this sentence to correspond to the undesired state of affairs in the nation whose king is foolish? In this passage "wine makes life merry" seems to me to have been ripped out of its context.
In Zechariah 10:7, God promises that Ephraim will have just as much euphoria in their hearts from the blessing of God as they would have had from the intoxicating effects of wine. I do agree that euphoria is one symptom of intoxication. All of the medical literature is in agreement on this point. Euphoria at any cost is not, however, a virtue in scripture. What is praised in Zechariah 10:7 is explicitly a non-alcohol induced euphoria that is described as being as intense as that produced by intoxicants. Again, this verse does not support the idea that intoxication (in mild cases) is a blessing from God.
I do think that we should be happy to have alcohol. My heart is glad over the existence of alcohol. There have been times in my life when Orajel gladdened my heart greatly, but I don't take it to get a buzz.
Proverbs 31:6 I think is not being read correctly there. "Leave the wine for people who aren't important and whose life stinks" is hardly an endorsement. It would be different, I think, if it were a passage encouraging the addressee to drink, addressed to a person in a down-and-out situation in which the Bible said, "What you really need is to tie one on! That'll fix everything!" Instead, what we've got is a passage urging someone not to drink—to abstain entirely from alcohol—and using as one of the arguments in favor of abstinence the suggestion that alcoholic beverages are only fit for the down-and-out.
After all of that, what we're left with is 1 Timothy 5:23, and there we're in total agreement. Wine, even when it is fully fermented and in consideration of its intoxicating qualities, is of great benefit to the world as a medicine. We have, in this day and time, a great many more medicines than they had back then. The use of alcoholic beverages as a medicine has diminished greatly as wine has been replaced by Lipitor, but there are still medicinal uses for drinking alcohol and I wouldn't hesitate at all to use alcohol for this purpose.
…continued…
…continued…
ReplyDeleteIn summary, I agree that the Bible teaches us that wine is a blessing from God. I agree that its medicinal qualities are an aspect of that blessing. I tend to think that, mixed with water and produced without the modern yeasts and technologies that have been developed to make wine more potent as an intoxicant, wine has been a blessing as a beverage.
I do not agree that recreational mild intoxication is a blessing from God. I do agree that several intoxication is a sin, but I think that mild intoxication is a sin as well.
I guess I agree with these folks. ;-)
I am open to the discussion as to whether there is a level of drinking alcoholic beverages for which no intoxication occurs (at least, that is worthy of being called intoxication or drunkenness). That's the point of the post, to explore what that might be.
Thanks again for contributing to a great conversation. Feel free to interact further if you so desire. Either way, thanks for reading and for joining the conversation.
That was supposed to be "severe" intoxication. Auto-correct fail.
ReplyDeleteBart, have you looked up the 100 plus references concerning wine? The Bible's ethic is use and not abuse. Obesity is a huge killer... it is the abuse of food and not the use of food that is the problem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VToEiMGGwgA&feature=youtu.be
ReplyDeleteIf someone is a total abstainer, why not have them drive even if you only had one glass of wine? What is wrong with that?
ReplyDeleteIs Mr. Steve sinning by drinking two glasses of wine Bart? What would you do if he was a member of your church? What would you do if he was a local SBC pastor?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
ReplyDeleteI'm sure that you're a great person and you're likely a fellow believer. The conversation that you seek has been done to death a thousand times. I just don't find it as interesting as what Steve and I are discussing (viz., is there a pre-intoxication level of alcohol consumption, and is "drunkenness" in the Bible a description only of severe intoxication or habitual intoxication). That conversation is one that I haven't had a hundred times on the Internet.
I don't mean to insult you by saying that your questions are boring. I'm sure that you can contribute meaningfully to the conversation that we are having, and I invite you to do so at your pleasure.
Let me finish with more thorough statements. That should help, though you have done a good job of tracking my thoughts. I will respond by point as you did.
ReplyDeleteConcerning the one-time drunken event: I agree it is sin. I just wanted to clarify what I was thinking at the time of my response without giving something fully formed. Shooting from the hip, as it were.
Intoxication is not bad in and of itself. What I mean is that anything affecting the senses can have this type of effect. Certain perfumes and foods do this, as do a great many images. As I mentioned, at issue is self-control. In addition, it is not the intoxicating property that makes wine a blessing, but God's promise of giving wine as a sign of His blessing (Jeremiah 31:12-14; Joel 2:24) and a gift for rejoicing (Deuteronomy 12:17-19; 14:22-26; Isaiah 62:8-9).
You asked about two passages I shared. Ecclesiastes 10:19 is the counterpoint to 10:18. Solomon is making a comparison to sloth with the conclusion that bread, wine, and money will be the reward of industry and used for the cares of life. And as for Zechariah 10:7, my point is that wine was already used for gladdening the heart and not removed, but I agree that the euphoria described is being praised. However, if you are still not persuaded of my understanding in this matter, I also offer Psalm 104:14-15.
I had to read your rendering of Proverbs 31:6 more than once. I now see what you are seeing, but I disagree. The passage warns rulers against becoming forgetful of their laws because of alcohol, and that it would be better to abstain than pervert justice--letting the down-and-out drink it to ease their sorrows. However, my application remains: it is for the suffering. In the end, I would not base a debate on this passage. There are others more clear.
P.S. Are you beginning to feel like Paul writing to Corinth? "Now about this...now about that"
How does your Biblical view of alcohol "medicinal qualities" fit with Jesus's 1st miracle ? ( John 2:1-11 )
ReplyDeleteThe Cana miracle is a difficult passage for everyone on all sides (except for people who see no problem with getting severely inebriated from time to time). The narrative clearly says that this was the stage of the wedding where the attendees were drunk (if you have an honest translator). The prospect we face in this story is not that Jesus gave alcoholic beverages to people who were moderately enjoying a glass or two of wine; the prospect is that Jesus was making and passing out booze to a group of rowdy drunks.
ReplyDeleteIf He was really doing that, he would be criminally liable as a bartender in many jurisdictions today, and rightly so.
That He would have been doing so seems unlikely to me, and it flies in the face of both my position and Steve's (and I hope yours, Anonymous). A great many people have suggested that Jesus made unfermented grape juice, and it is an absolute fact that the word has a semantic range large enough to accommodate such a possibility—that's one "escape" from the conundrum, but it doesn't make me entirely comfortable with the story.
The other wrinkle is the clear statement that Jesus didn't want to do this. He acquiesced to the wishes of his mother. And THAT shows our Lord in an extremely difficult situation similar to what many people face today: Do I honor my father and mother and obey my parents, even when they ask me to do something that I think is wrong? Perhaps, since wine itself and the making of wine is not evil, Jesus obeyed Mary, made the wine, and then left the users to be responsible for what they did, right or wrong, with what He had made. That's a position that works equally well (or equally poorly, depending upon your point of view) with either Steve's position or my own.
Is it permissible to be a blogger and a pastor and still to say, "Gee, I don't know the answer to that question"? As I said, it is a hard passage for almost every position on the spectrum, although there are obviously people at every point on the continuum who would deny that it is a hard passage for their point of view. I'm not one of them: It's a difficult passage.
Thank You for a very thoughtful and respectful answer - of course I am not surprised- You passed the test given by your not so anonymous deacon
ReplyDeleteBart, in relation to your question, What Defines Drunkenness?, could you answer this question, Do you consider Steve as sinning if he drinkes a glass of wine tonight? What if he was a church member of yours?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous:
ReplyDeleteOur church covenant answers the question clearly enough: click here.
I do not really appreciate a question that pits me against Steve, so I decline to answer questions about his personal life. I will, however, say that I would believe that I were sinning if I were to go down to Brookshires, buy a bottle of wine, and consume a glass of it tonight.
To employ chemical substances such as alcohol and drugs only as informed by the teachings of the Bible, wise medical counsel, and the dictates of the law (Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 5:11, 6:9-11; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Timothy 5:23).
ReplyDeleteAm I interpreting this correctly that basically alcohol consumption is not allowed by the church because of these scriptures?
Tom,
ReplyDeleteI have great confidence in your capacity to interpret it in whatever way generates the most animosity in the thread.
If we had wanted to say that "alcohol consumption is not allowed" we would be able to state it in a manner unmistakable to you. What we have done instead is to ask members to study the scriptures, obey the law, listen to their physicians, and then make the call for themselves.
I believe that a fair study of the scriptures will lead them to abstain. But we don't exclude members for coming to different conclusions on this matter.
Brother Bart,
ReplyDeleteDid you see this from the History of Welches Grape Juice?
Dr. Thomas Bramwell Welch, a physician and dentist by profession, successfully pasteurizes Concord grape juice to produce an "unfermented sacramental wine" for fellow parishioners at his church in Vineland, N.J., where he is communion steward.
Drunkenness in the Scriptures is vomiting, staggering, falling down ... which is a sin.
ReplyDeleteHow do you define gluttony? Do pastor who are 100 pounds over weight qualify? How many of our church members have many health problems because of obesity? How do we define it?
By the way: What does Welches Grape Juice have to do with this post?
Anonymous:
ReplyDelete1. Thanks for your asserted, but unsupported, definition of drunkenness in the Scriptures. Can you point us to a lexicon or other scholarly work that supports your thesis that these symptoms mark the beginning of drunkenness?
2. Thank you also for confirming what I have long suspected: That many of those who claim to be opposed to drunkenness really aren't opposed to even moderate intoxication. If you can still stand up, you're not sinning!
3. It would do us all well to have a post defining gluttony, which I'll be glad to do soon. Too many people post about gluttony without having performed even the most basic research about it. Do your homework, and you may be surprised.
Tim,
ReplyDeleteI'm familiar with the history of Welch's. Care to connect the dots for me?
Job 12:25 …stagger like a drunken man.
ReplyDeleteIsaiah 28:7-8 …tables are full of filthy vomit
Proverbs 23:33-35 33 Your eyes will see strange things and your mind will utter perverse things. 34 And you will be like one who lies down in the middle of the sea, or like one who lies down on the top of a mast. 35 "They struck me, but I did not become ill; they beat me, but I did not know it. When shall I awake? I will seek another drink."
There are many fine Christian men and women who live out moderation and condemn drunkenness.
Bart, do you believe a believer who believes in moderation is sinning if they have a two beers an evening? Would you tell a believer that they are sinning if they limit themselves to two glasses of wine?
There are many godly men and women who hold to the moderation view point based on reading the Bible.
The Bible and Alcoholic Beverages http://www.reformedpresbytery.org/books/alcoholb/alcoholb.htm
Wine In The Bible & The Church http://www.nethtc.net/~giwopc/Wine_Book.pdf
A Sober Assessment of Reformational Drinking
http://www.wittenberghall.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=4&BlogID=149
PROTESTANT TRANSUBSTANTIATION
Part 1: Thesis; Biblical Witness
http://thirdmill.org/newfiles/kei_mathison/TH.Mathison.Prot.Transub.1.pdf
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteThe verses that you cite support both of our cases. We both agree that staggering, vomiting, etc., are features of drunkenness.
But, for example, Eli thought that Hannah was drunk, and she wasn't staggering, vomiting, etc. She was just emotionally overwrought. The people on the Day of Pentecost weren't staggering, vomiting, etc., but the people of Jerusalem thought they were drunk.
The stage of intoxication that you describe (vomiting, can't stand up, passing out, etc.) certainly is drunkenness. Biblical drunkenness certainly INCLUDES that stage of intoxication. Drunkenness, however, starts long before those symptoms and continues through them.
anyone who messes with the Devil's brew is inviting the Devil to mess with their mind....foolish...very, very foolish...
ReplyDeleteAccording to Proverbs, it's very foolish to drink fermented, undiluted wine....foolish....
I used to drink beer and other types of alcohol...back when I was a lost man...I enjoyed it...getting high on liquor..
But now, after I got saved....I try to obey the Lord and live a wise and holy life...so, I dont drink and get high and drunk anymore....besides, my life is in Jesus, not the bottle.
David
Bart, why the question any way? Are you trying to point out that if you don't know where the line of drunkenness is then you should not even have a glass of wine?
ReplyDeleteI noticed you haven't answered: There are many fine Christian men and women who live out moderation and condemn drunkenness.
Bart, do you believe a believer who believes in moderation is sinning if they have a two beers an evening? Would you tell a believer that they are sinning if they limit themselves to two glasses of wine?
And i look forward to you explain what defines gluttony.
David, you said: anyone who messes with the Devil's brew is inviting the Devil to mess with their mind....foolish...very, very foolish...
ReplyDeleteAre you saying Melchizedek,Jacob, Isaac, OT priest, David, Abigail, Ester and Jesus, John Calvin and John Knox and C.S. Lewis, are not wise?
Brother Bart,
ReplyDeleteYea, I will try to connect the dots. According to what I can find (and I am still trying to get it to pdf so I can get you a link) Dr. Welch produced this juice because he understood the wine being produced in his day was not the same wine the Bible was speaking of. Thus, the wine, malt beverages, and liquor we have today is not the same alcoholic beverages they consumed during biblical times.
While I understand what you mean about the language of the wedding feast being "drunkenness" can you elaborate a little for me? What is the parts of speech one has to overlook to establish that "well drunk" means full, not intoxicated? The reason I ask is the translations. While the word means drunken, the translations certainly have a legitimate translation to say "well drunk". Am I translated biased or is there a grammatical nuance that I am overlooking?
Blessings,
Tim
Tim,
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that Welch first made his grapejuice to give Churches an unfermented grapeuice for the Lord's Supper. And, the rest is history.
Anonymous, Are you saying that these people never made mistakes? Leaving out Jesus, of course, because he never messed up. And, He never drank undiluted, fermented wine, either. Of course, I already know your answer to this....you believe that all these people did drink strong drink, and its okay to do so. Thus, you drink liquor. I just dont believe God wants me to do that...based on the Scriptures in Proverbs calling it foolish to do so...and the one in Ephesians saying its a sin to be drunk on it. So, I just dont drink, at all.
David
Or, Anon, let's put it this way... how wise would you feel if someone in your church found out that you drink liquor...in moderation...and so, they started drinking, too. After all, if you do it, then it must be okay. So, they start drinking, and they end up being a drunk....how wise would you feel?
ReplyDeleteAlso, lets just say that your wife drinks with you....I dont know your age...but lets just say she gets pregnant...and before she ever even knows that she's pregnant, she drinks liquor; and your baby gets FAS(fetal alcohol syndrone). How wise would you feel then?
Do you think you might feel just a little bit foolish?
David
PS. please dont read my comments as a "I'm more holy and righteous than you," because I dont mean them that way. I'm a sinner, who fails the Lord way too much in other kinds of ways for my liking.
David, your reasoning only works if you believe in the two wine theory, otherwise you are calling Melchizedek,Jacob, Isaac, OT priest, David, Abigail, Ester and Jesus fools.
ReplyDeleteAre overweight pastors getting a pass? I know of some that are 100 pounds overweight and have many medical problems. Moderation in food is the answer, not gluttony.
Moderation in wine is fine but abuse is a sin. You are free to abstain and state your case. Check the articles by godly men that i cited earlier.
Has anyone listened to these three sermons by a solid,godly, bible teacher from Omaha?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ordinarypastor.com/?p=267
Interesting article
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ordinarypastor.com/?p=260
Bart:
ReplyDeleteYou said to me:"I have great confidence in your capacity to interpret it in whatever way generates the most animosity in the thread."
Not nice, Bart. No animosity was intended. Just a simple question. I think you have sadly stereotyped me.
You strike me as someone who has very strong views and it sure seems to bother you when you find someone who has equally strong views.
You seem to have no tolerance for such.
Bart:
ReplyDeleteYou said:"I believe that a fair study of the scriptures will lead them to abstain. But we don't exclude members for coming to different conclusions on this matter."
Can these folks be any type of minister or deacon or elder or teach Sunday school at your church?
Anon,
ReplyDeleteI noticed that you didnt answer my questions about someone becoming a drunk, due to watching you drink; and the one about FAS. Would you please answer those...about how wise you'd feel about drinking then?
The "2 wine theory?" Its not a theory. Its the way things were. They drank grapejuice, which was diluted with 3 parts to 10 parts water...that was mainly what they drank, in order to keep from drinking the fermented, strong stuff. But, of course, there were some in that day, as in ours, who just wanted to party...so, they drank the fermented, undiluted so they could get high on it.
Dude, what they drank back then...even the fermented stuff... was nothing as potent as what we have today....the technology we have today makes our liquor more powerful...
I just hope that, one day, you dont reap the whirlwind...hope you dont have a son or daughter, who turns into a drunk...hope you dont get hooked on alcohol...
But, I do wish you'd take another look at my time scenario's...and answer me about feeling wise if those things happened.
David
David, the problem is I don't see your view when i read Scripture.
ReplyDeleteI believe that drunkenness is a sin in Scripture and yet the Bible never teaches the ethic of total abstaining... The priest were given wine as part of thier salary and the Nazerite was free to drink wine after his vow was over. Godly men and women drink wine in Scripture. Use and not abuse is the ethic i see in Holy Scripture. But by all means, live out your conviction. Did you read the articles posted earlier?
Anon 12:47
ReplyDeleteYou said to 007:"David, the problem is I don't see your view when i read Scripture.
I believe that drunkenness is a sin in Scripture and yet the Bible never teaches the ethic of total abstaining... The priest were given wine as part of thier salary and the Nazerite was free to drink wine after his vow was over. Godly men and women drink wine in Scripture. Use and not abuse is the ethic i see in Holy Scripture. But by all means, live out your conviction. Did you read the articles posted earlier?"
When 007 can not find scripture to support his views--he just wings it.
Scary coming from a Pastor.
Dear Brother Bart,
ReplyDeleteI realize that this is an older post, but as I was going through your blog I found this and it peaked my interest. I hope I can add something that produces more light than heat, and hope it fits within the criteria of those you seek to answer.
I would be an abstentionist in the sense that I do not drink alcoholic beverages, but not one in the sense of believing in teetotalism -- no alcohol for reasons other than medicinal, which I was taught as I grew up.
I am also not sure that I "support the recreational use of intoxicants." To me that seems to imply some drinking for the purpose of getting a "buzz". I would only support drinking wine in the same sense of drinking tea, coffee, cola or such like with one's meal.
You ask, "Is that none of the pastor's business?" Certainly, it is the pastor and church's business. Even before the rise of the temperance movement and the teetotal position in most missionary Baptist churches of the South, churches were somehow able to define drunkenness and exclude members for said act. You also ask the question, "Would you mind telling me how I as a pastor can know when a member of my flock is guilty of drunkenness?" It seems to me that the Bible-believing Christian must answer this the same way regardless of his or her position on drinking -- go to the Bible and find out what it says about drunkenness. We won't find a fine dividing line that we can determine with a breath-a-lizer, but we will find guidance. Inspired, inerrant guidance at that.
I apologize for the length. I had to break this into two posts.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I assume there is a point where one passes from drinking wine to drunkenness; that is, these are two different states. We legally define it with blood alcohol level, but the question before us is, or at least should be, how does the Bible, our rule of faith and practice, define it.
1. Wine (alcoholic) or strong drink is spoken of in the Bible in both positive and negative contexts. Some may disavow the positive, so note the following verses. Deuteronomy 14:22-26; Num. 28:7; Psalm 104:13-15.
2. There is a point at which one leaves "drinking wine" and becomes drunken. For examples, Genesis 9:21 "And he drank of the wine, and was drunken..." Deuteronomy 29:19 "And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:"
3. The Bible speaks of "drunken" but also an exceeding state of that: 1 Samuel 25:36 "And Abigail came to Nabal; and, behold, he held a feast in his house, like the feast of a king; and Nabal's heart was merry within him, for he was very drunken"
4. Other actions may be mistaken for drunkenness. 1 Samuel 1:13 "Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken." (Cf. Acts 2:15)
5. Certain actions or states are often associated with drunkenness in the Bible, such as have already been mentioned -- staggering, shaking & vomiting. (cf. Ps. 107:27, Jer. 23:9, Isa. 19:14). Obviously we understand other things can also cause these.
6. Drunkenness is compared with loss of control of one's senses or actions. Sometimes "lost" in a good way -- being controlled by the Spirit. Ephesians 5:18 "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;" There are also other figures in the Bible that speak of being "drunk" on something other than wine/strong drink that seem to generally share the meaning of not being in control or possession of one's faculties. (Cf. Job 12:24-25; Lam. 4:21; Rev. 17:2)
7. Perhaps -- and I do emphasize perhaps -- drunkenness is defined as excess of wine. Compare Eph. 5:18 and I Peter 4:3.
I realize that many will see this as far too simplistic and be disappointed that it does not draw as exact a line and they may want. But looking at it this way is the starting place for a BIBLICAL definition of drunkenness. I would also turn the question around and pose it to the Christian who believes in only medicinal use of alcohol, "How do you know when a member of your flock is guilty of drunkenness?"