I'm so thankful that we live in an age in which churches are able to investigate the background of candidates for pastoral office so thoroughly. Churches can and regularly do perform criminal background investigations, credit investigations, driving investigations, and the thorough questioning of provided references. Here at First Baptist Church of Farmersville, when they called me nearly ten years ago, they asked my references to provide the names of people who knew me, and then asked those people to provide the names of people familiar with my ministry, going three levels deep to investigate my background.
What a great idea, since all pastors are not alike, and since there are some predators and bad apples out there who can do major damage to a church!
Some have suggested that the Southern Baptist Convention set up a database of sexual offenders in the pulpit, reacting, I'm sure, to the fact that the vast and rapid improvement in resources to investigate pastors still has not eradicated the problem of clergy abuse. What remains to be demonstrated is not that a problem still exists, but that any of the proposed solutions would actually accomplish more good than harm.
So, not all pastors are alike. But neither are all churches alike. I'm keenly aware of that fact, being blessed as I am. First Baptist Church of Farmersville, having been founded here in 1865, has never terminated a pastor and has never split. The congregation has faced good times and hard times, seasons of growth and seasons of challenge. We have weathered all of the storms of over 140 years and have done so, so far, without acting abusively toward those whom she has called to serve. Not every pastor, I have come to realize, enjoys the blessing of serving at a church like this one.
But the government does not maintain a database of abusive churches. No national bureaus report whether churches pay what they have promised to pay or deal fairly in their conduct of business or follow the rules of their own governing documents. Where do you turn when a Pastor Search Committee lies to you? Are you certain that the local Director of Missions will tell you the truth? Will he risk alienating a contributing church to give the honest truth to a rank stranger? Some will and do, and we all thank God for them. But sometimes pastors walk into abusive situations with no fair opportunity to learn all of the facts.
Here's hoping that the onward march of technology will result in some system that holds rogue congregations accountable for their actions. I would much rather that it be an informal system than a formal system. The staggering decline in the number of people interested in pastoring existing congregations is, to some degree, influenced by the abuses of these bad-apple congregations. There are fewer of them than we suspect, I am convinced, but the difficulty in identifying them poses a frightening prospect for pastors. The stories of pastors and their families brutalized by congregations may not outnumber the stories of good things done for pastors, but they certainly stick in the memory and move the heart. A great many pastors have had their zeal for ministry and their love of the church beaten out of them by cowardly bullies masquerading as Christians.
Ideally, churches and pastors should find one another in a free and open exchange of critical information. But it needs to be a two-way street. And it needs to be centered around the conviction that God brings pastors and churches together, and that He rewards the actions of anyone who deals honestly and justly in submission to His will and with respect for His children.
22 comments:
Bart,
Praise the Lord for the Steadfastness of His Church in Farmersville. Wouldn’t it be Great if all Churches followed the example of your Church.
Wayne
Excellent thoughts, Bart. But I sure don't know an answer beyond the incoming pastor being as thorough with his investigation, as the church that goes 3-deep.
Bart,
I realize much of this is subjective. But one thing needs to be certain. The DOM needs to be trustworthy in such matters. He should be totally truthful without regard to his own welfare.
If not he should be fired as soon as he is found out.
cb
Wayne,
Indeed it would!
Bob,
I agree, but I see a problem. Who gives a "reference" for a church?
One interesting thing to do, and something that I have done in the past, is to stop by the local diner, claim that you have an interest in moving to the town, and tell them that you are looking for a good church. The recommendation of the average person on the street will tell you something.
CB,
You're right...it is subjective. And in my experience, DOM's have always shot straight with me. But I've known a person or two with a different experience.
Brother Bart,
Much of this could be resolved if we raised up and appointed elders from within our congregations.
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
FTME,
Thanks for stopping by. Not only have you contributed to our discussion, but you have reminded me to go check on our other conversation.
Now, what do you mean by "elders"?
Brother Bart,
Good question. Let me give you three ways of defining the word elders... just kidding!
I mean the group of believers who lead a local community.
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
FTME,
I do not find in the BIble any justification for the idea that there is more than one type (lay, teaching) of elder. Also, the Bible conflates the terms elder, pastor, and overseer. Thus, every elder is also a pastor and an overseer, and every pastor is an elder. Those clarifications granted, I'm entirely comfortable with a congregation choosing pastors (elders) from among their own number, although I see no reason why they would be wrong to choose someone from another congregation.
I think it is possible that the choosing of pastors indigenously from within the congregation would help in some of these situations, I think it naïve to regard it as any sort of panacea.
I've seen plenty of conflict among the individual members of a congregation in my time—not just between a congregation and its leadership. Also, most of the conflict that I've seen in congregations has involved just the sort of people who would wind up being selected in such choices by the congregation. Usually they are able to cause trouble precisely because they have influence within the congregation, whether they should or not.
Finally, one must consider the increasing mobility of populations in some cultures. Not nearly all of my community's citizens are "home-grown." Most have moved here from somewhere else. A great number of those have moved here recently. My congregation's membership reflects the same trend. Having served here nearly a decade, I'm now in (I'm guestimating here) the longest-tenured 25% of the people who attend here on any given Sunday. How, I wonder, would it be different to have in leadership members who have moved hither and yon and wound up here versus having in leadership members who have moved hither and yon and have wound up here for the express purpose of giving pastoral leadership to the congregation?
Brother Bart,
I agree with you, particularly, on three points:
1. Raising up leadership from within does not cure all.
2. Our culture is increasingly mobile.
3. Your comments regarding the terms "pastor, elder and overseer in the first paragraph should be required reading for every follower of Jesus in this country.
But none of these militates again my comment that, "Much of this could be resolved if we raised up and appointed elders from within the congregation."
First, the only cure-all, as far as our responsibility is concerned, is following hard after God whether leaders are chosen from within or without.
Second, I did not mean to imply chronological age when referring to the "raising up" of leaders. This was more in reference to us "raising up" leaders from among those who are "young" to "middle-aged" with regard to their spiritual maturity. So, those who have been at your congregation for the past five years might very well be growing/have grown into folks qualified to be elders. In fact, some of them may have arrived less than two years ago and were already prepared by God (at another location) to serve in this capacity. I see nothing inherently wrong with this. Nor do I see anything inherently wrong with a mobile culture. I am a member of one local community but have EXTREMELY strong ties to several others and am accepted among them as a brother and even called upon to lead in some areas on occasion. This is due, in large part, to our increasingly mobile culture. (A side note is that this increase in mobility is a great opportunity for the expansion of God's Kingdom).
Your statement that:
"most of the conflict that I've seen in congregations has involved just the sort of people who would wind up being selected in such choices by the congregation."
is particularly troubling. If conflict-makers rather than peacemakers are what God's people want, major health issues within the community exist. You seem, to me, to definitely be a Baptist. If this is the case, are these communities congregationally ruled? If so, would that not mean these are just the leaders God would have for them? It would seem that if this is the direction they desire to be led, they will find someone to lead them there even if "from the outside." Perhaps their selection of different-type folks (not conflict-makers) from the outside is because they really do not know these potential leaders at all, but because they listened to a few sermons and had a couple of interviews. I am not saying this process is necessarily "wrong," only that local congregations should be VERY careful in selecting someone they do not know to lead them and "outside leaders" in search of a group to help lead should do the same.
Again, I would like to emphasize that I am not saying one is wrong or one is right. My concern has more to do with relationships between elders and the rest of the community. Not only should the community, as a whole, be intimately acquainted with those who lead/shepherd them, but elders/shepherds should also be intimately acquainted with those they lead. Deep insight into the people which one leads is VERY important... how else is one to known where and how to lead/shepherd them? Whichever "method" is used for installing elders, all elders should take care to know those they lead. Knowing the community's history and desires for the future will help elders to shepherd in the present. If God chooses to do this by "bringing someone in from the outside," I am all for it.
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
FTME,
I do believe that spiritual health issues exist in our congregations. In some congregations those issues are more major than they are in others.
We are almost entirely in agreement.
My point at which we differed is simply that, for the kind of problem congregations that I have mentioned, the reason why they are problem congregations is because they either permit or prefer contentious members to rise into leadership within the congregation. If they were choosing their own pastors from within their own ranks, who's to say that they wouldn't choose the same people whom they follow in abusive attacks against their pastors? Isn't it likely that they would?
In saying so, I'm not asserting that this is the pattern for every Baptist congregation. Rather, I'm suggesting that the very congregations that most need the help are the ones least likely to select peacemakers to lead them.
Brother Bart,
I think I understand your concern here. But I do not think the solution has to be bringing in elders from the outside. I say this for several reasons:
1. Why would they treat the new outsiders any different than the elders already run off?
2. Someone who is trusted is needed to bring to light the sin of divisiveness and disunity. It will take someone from the outside quite some time to earn trust and, not in name but function, actually be a leader.
3. You cannot lead people where they do not want to go. Until the community is ready for unity and reconciliation to be normative, it matters not who is brought in from the outside.
In the case of a community that is so dysfunctional that it does not even desire unity or does not recognize divisive people already present, it may be that some of the recommendations found here:
http://www.sbcimpact.net/2008/09/30/in-between-pastors/
would be more beneficial than bringing in a long-term person to be a whipping boy.
Again, I do understand what you are saying and agree that those appointed as elders in local congregations (whether from the inside or outside) should be spiritually mature. A divisive person is certainly not mature and should NOT have hands laid upon him. I do think we are in agreement in this matter... and this is the second consecutive post of yours that we agree on... that Aslan pumpkin rocks!
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
FTME,
You are not a career missionary with the IMB are you?
You are not a journeyman with the IMB are you?
You are not related to the IMB in any way are you?
cb
FTME,
Thanks for applauding my accidental success on the pumpkin. Our serial agreement here is not necessarily that remarkable; to my knowledge we have only disagreed sharply on one and only one topic, albeit a substantial one.
You said: "I do not think the solution has to be bringing in elders from the outside"
Of course not. I have not authored a post on the virtue of bringing in elders from the outside. You suggested that appointing elders from the inside was some substantial solution to the problems that I mentioned. I merely argued against your suggestion as any major solution to the problem—I did not suggest that the opposite of your suggestion was the solution. My position is that the origin of the pastors of the church, although it might be of incidental impact upon specific manifestations of the question, poses no essential solution to the problem either way (local or non-local elders).
Brother CB,
I was with the IMB, but now work with a different sending agency that focuses on mobilizing short-term teams to unreached people groups. The teams I lead often work with long-term missionaries from several organizations, the IMB being one. Why do you ask?
God's grace be yours in abundance,
From the Middle East
Bart,
I have never been fired from a church. I have fired many people from church:-) before they gathered an army to fire me. IT IS CALLED PRO-ACTIVE CHURCH ADMINISTRATION:-)
I have only been fired once in my life. It was not from a church.
I have seen situations where pastors should have been fired and were not. I have seen situations where godly pastors were fired by godless churches.
This recently happened to a friend of mine. He fails to realize it but I believe his DOM let him down.
He fails to realize it because he has a big and trusting heart. The DOM sandbagged him.
The leadership of his former church are theological dwarves and spineless people.
cb
FTME,
In all honesty I was hopeful you did not and I am glad you no longer do.
How on earth did you get through the interview process? Were you ever part of the Vineyard Movement?
cb
Brother CB,
I am not sure why you are concerned with me being part of the Vineyard Movement. I am not/was not. I made it through the interview process by being truthful. Do I sound overly charismatic to you? I have never been accused of being charismatic before, this is interesting.
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
FTME,
I was kinda hopeful you were from the Vineyard Movement that made a concerted effort to invade the IMB a few years back. That would have explained a lot to me relating to the lack of understanding you have of the local church and biblical ecclesiology in general.
if I may ask, did you graduate from a SBC seminary?
cb
FTME,
One more question if you will indulge me; Did you actually go through missionary training in Richmond?
cb
Brother CB,
Yet another accusation that has never been leveled in my direction, I must be on to something today ;^)
What specifically do you perceive I misunderstand concerning biblical ecclesiology?
Peace to you brother,
From the Middle East
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